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I do remember the time when some Democrats were tarnished with that pejorative brush... Larry Send a noteboard - 09/10/2013 08:48:50 AM

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i think the main problem here is that the terrorist label fits but you are too beholden to your party's interests to allow it to stand. i get it, you're a team player and always have been -- at least here in a public space. if you agree with the tactic, that is certainly your right. but you can't sit here and argue that the tactic of both taking the government hostage to issue political demands and threatening default on top of that are not severely destructive to the future of America. ted cruz can stand on the floor of the Senate and proclaim that Obamacare is equivalent to nazism, or paul broun can proclaim Obamacare will be "the destruction of everything", but seizing control of the federal government and issuing demands is "just a budget negotiation". sorry, the real world doesn't work like that.

one of your own put it best when he said "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is." your people don't know why they shut down the government, and have even less clue how to get out of it without having the Dems bail them out, which of course would be "capitulating" or something. even grover "drown government in a bathtub" norquist is against shutdown and default. the writing is on the wall for apparently everyone but the House gop to read that this shutdown/default fight is nothing less than insanity.


While I'll admit that there are moments when I long for the collapse of state/corporate capitalism even if it involves the suffering of many short-term while the government dissolves into chaos and anarchy, for the most part I find it better to consider that one is often judged by the quality of one's enemies. Considering the two major parties involved in this discussion, I would have to say that certainly the quality of the opposition/debate leaves a lot to be desired on several fronts...

Or in even more clear terms, I think the conflation of "opposition" with "enemy" to be rather troubling. Disliked it in the 1980s-2000s when it came to Democratic opposition to Reagan/Bush foreign policy being labeled as "pinko" or "soft on _" and I certainly dislike seeing the same wrong-headed rhetoric, which denies the validity of an opposing viewpoint, being directed toward a party which until recently (say the past 19 years or so) was one which I could plausibly consider voting for in a state/federal election. I'd much rather see more dispassionate discourse and reasonable resolution to structural issues than to see demagogues of various stripes try to dominate the discussion in a fashion similar to drunken louts at a football game. The latter are odious, sometimes violent people who make others around them feel bad about even having vague associations of fandom/loyalty with those cretins. So are you wanting those like myself to consider you in that unsavory category?

Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Government "shutdown" my ass..... Anonymous2000 - 06/10/2013 06:48:02 PM 1552 Views
Why would your government shut down your ass? Yunalesca - 06/10/2013 08:03:57 PM 1029 Views
Actually, it is... Dannymac - 07/10/2013 04:12:30 AM 982 Views
Must we do this again? Isaac - 07/10/2013 05:45:00 AM 966 Views
A whole generation has voted DNC twice. Dannymac - 07/10/2013 04:18:25 PM 801 Views
It voted RNC twice right before that, then DNC twice before that, then RNC thrice before that Isaac - 07/10/2013 05:18:31 PM 817 Views
elections are a cyclical affair by nature. the gop won't always be the party of stupid.... *NM* moondog - 07/10/2013 08:02:44 PM 464 Views
Not to mention they've gerrymandered like there's no tomorrow. Legolas - 07/10/2013 05:49:23 PM 867 Views
I hope we do default. ranagrande - 07/10/2013 07:04:24 PM 864 Views
Uhm. Legolas - 07/10/2013 09:09:45 PM 759 Views
Well it has been 70 years since we had a World War Isaac - 07/10/2013 09:37:14 PM 940 Views
You see in America we don't shoot stupid Roland00 - 08/10/2013 06:59:53 AM 770 Views
never going to happen Praziquantel - 08/10/2013 01:13:10 PM 965 Views
When gerrymandering there is no tomorrow, just the current decade Isaac - 07/10/2013 07:29:39 PM 856 Views
I'm curious as to why you say "unpopular bill" here Larry - 08/10/2013 09:02:49 AM 877 Views
Force of habit or slip of tongue, "Unpopular set of laws" Isaac - 08/10/2013 03:05:18 PM 884 Views
Ha! Larry - 09/10/2013 08:37:25 AM 886 Views
Bad enough, no? Legolas - 08/10/2013 06:32:06 PM 719 Views
Certainly Isaac - 08/10/2013 08:23:34 PM 964 Views
give a coherent reason for the shutdown and the label of economic terrorist will go away moondog - 07/10/2013 08:11:27 PM 974 Views
Why should I try to discourage you from using a label that makes you look like a fanatic? Isaac - 07/10/2013 09:23:40 PM 860 Views
i guess i should have put the disclaimer you asked for so you would know to be offended, is that it? moondog - 07/10/2013 10:49:43 PM 843 Views
It's pretty fucking sad any of us think we need a reason to act civilly, courtesy is its own reward *NM* Isaac - 08/10/2013 07:50:00 AM 497 Views
So you mean I shouldn't call you "an uncle fucking horsefucker" then? Larry - 08/10/2013 09:04:06 AM 793 Views
That's correct Larry, that would be unproductive Isaac - 08/10/2013 04:04:39 PM 881 Views
Of course it would; I rarely use such words toward people who might be still involved in a convo Larry - 09/10/2013 08:39:22 AM 790 Views
Re: Of course it would; [...] Isaac - 09/10/2013 05:25:28 PM 830 Views
hey, i've given plenty of reasonable alternatives, i don't see why you can't compromise with me *NM* moondog - 08/10/2013 10:09:44 PM 428 Views
Compromises? You've called my party terrorists and made it clear it wasn't hyperbole in your eyes Isaac - 08/10/2013 10:23:05 PM 868 Views
read what you wrote, direct it at your party, and look up "satire" if you still don't get it..... *NM* moondog - 08/10/2013 10:43:31 PM 526 Views
It's always painful when people think they're being funny or clever rather than sullen Isaac - 08/10/2013 11:33:36 PM 811 Views
remember that time when the Dems shut down the government to stop the iraq war? oh wait.... moondog - 09/10/2013 12:42:53 AM 860 Views
Probably a bad analogy pick, many of the Dem-initiated shutdowns were over defense spending Isaac - 09/10/2013 01:11:38 AM 774 Views
ok, henceforth instead of terrorists i will use "tea-hadists". is that more to your liking? moondog - 09/10/2013 10:26:36 PM 979 Views
No. Overdue, insincere, and half-assed attempts at marginal courtesy is not 'to my liking' Isaac - 09/10/2013 10:40:57 PM 832 Views
and here is the big picture, in a nutshell moondog - 10/10/2013 12:26:18 AM 910 Views
"Here's the big picture" remarks shouldn't start by complaining about your personal paycheck Isaac - 10/10/2013 12:37:34 AM 823 Views
i think 800,000 federal workers would disagree but YMMV moondog - 10/10/2013 12:44:29 AM 1085 Views
The GOP House already voted to give them back pay Isaac - 10/10/2013 01:21:27 AM 838 Views
the House is good at making empty gestures without actually addressing the causes moondog - 11/10/2013 05:17:34 PM 885 Views
How is agreeing to backpay an empty gesture? Isaac - 11/10/2013 05:37:58 PM 1203 Views
it's empty because the shutdown persists. end the shutdown and they won't need back pay moondog - 11/10/2013 11:02:20 PM 911 Views
Make up your mind, you complained early that you weren't getting paid Isaac - 11/10/2013 11:21:57 PM 800 Views
Clever. Did you make that one up yourself? I like it, will have to remember that one... *NM* Legolas - 09/10/2013 11:31:22 PM 446 Views
i can't claim to have invented it, but use it as you wish *NM* moondog - 09/10/2013 11:34:39 PM 473 Views
I do remember the time when some Democrats were tarnished with that pejorative brush... Larry - 09/10/2013 08:48:50 AM 886 Views
Re: I do remember the time when some Democrats were tarnished with that pejorative brush... moondog - 09/10/2013 09:51:22 PM 885 Views
That schtick got old a long time ago. You need newer, better material. Larry - 10/10/2013 03:43:31 AM 817 Views
you'll be rid of me for good soon enough, don't worry about it moondog - 11/10/2013 05:10:00 PM 1010 Views
I couldn't care less either way. Just make stronger arguments. *NM* Larry - 11/10/2013 05:55:05 PM 463 Views
you do realize you would come out a loser in said anarchy don't you? random thoughts - 11/10/2013 03:56:24 AM 857 Views
You do realize that when I say "there are moments when I..." that it implies something else? Larry - 11/10/2013 08:22:26 AM 918 Views
the republicans won more elections now the democrats have shutdown the government random thoughts - 09/10/2013 06:37:31 PM 869 Views
to quote Jon Stewart: "if you're gonna shut it down, OWN IT! Don't fart and then point at the dog" *NM* moondog - 09/10/2013 09:37:28 PM 485 Views
I agree. So now Obama and the senate need to step up and own it. *NM* random thoughts - 10/10/2013 06:02:56 PM 382 Views
That's about it. MonCul - 09/10/2013 12:36:30 AM 697 Views
Also, I wish you wouldn't egg them on Isaac - 07/10/2013 05:46:20 AM 837 Views
While I agree with your sentiment, "Big Government" is not a cause. Palatine - 07/10/2013 03:34:40 PM 1032 Views
Wow. Been a long time since we had a thread like this. I like it! :-) *NM* everynametaken - 10/10/2013 03:55:50 AM 452 Views
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