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That's awfully apocalyptic, don't you think? Legolas Send a noteboard - 16/08/2013 07:34:12 PM

View original postAs with Syria, this could lead to years of violence and death. As with Syria, as long as no side wins we probably don't care very much. I expect Lebanon and Iraq will be in full-blown civil war by the end of the year.

Except of course that Egypt has 80 million inhabitants and is by far the largest Arab country; a Syrian scenario is not an option. Not that that's likely, fortunately. I don't think you're right about Lebanon - things are tense, but the Lebanese know what civil war looks like, and they're not stupid. Iraq looks worse, but there too people know quite well where things will end if they let it slide too far.
View original postHopefully, after about ten years and a few dozen million dead the Muslim world will realize what Europeans realized about 3 centuries ago: don't fucking mix religion and politics.

3 centuries ago, is it? Let's not overestimate the extent to which European countries or the US are secular in their politics - France is, I suppose, but France is hardly much of a shining example. I don't think I even need to mention the American religious right, or the influence that Christianity had and still has on the conservative parties of Spain and Germany, to name only two obvious examples. Go back a little in time - less than a century, never mind three - and you get to things like the Belgian Socialists and Liberals (I'm not sure about other countries) postponing voting rights for women for years if not decades on account of "they'd just vote for whoever the priests told them to vote for". In Europe that age is ending, yes, though probably not as fast as some would like to think, but in the US it doesn't really look that way. How often does an openly atheist politician get elected to national office?

The Arab countries will have to get a working democracy going in much less time than the Western countries did, and it won't be easy. But a lot of people in the West need to get over their delusion that "democracy" means that suddenly the Arabs will see everything precisely like us and forget about their religion and culture. And they also need to realize that the Egyptian secular establishment may seem nicer and less alien to the West than the religious middle class does, but then that's because the secular establishment and the armed forces in particular can only maintain their plutocracy with Western support; which doesn't precisely endear the West to said religious middle class.

And really, when you get down to it, those Muslim Brotherhood voters are not that "alien" that a Westerner can't understand their frustration and anger, if he's merely willing to engage in a few thought experiments and put himself in their position for a moment.

I hope you don't actually believe that final prediction of yours, in any case I for one think it's rather, well, apocalyptic as I said.

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What the hell is happening in Egypt? *NM* - 15/08/2013 05:32:29 PM 495 Views
A small(ish) civil war. - 15/08/2013 06:45:29 PM 596 Views
Hmmm. - 15/08/2013 07:02:38 PM 531 Views
These states' borders are the key. - 15/08/2013 07:16:04 PM 581 Views
Exactly what everyone knew would happen. *NM* - 15/08/2013 10:35:08 PM 277 Views
+1 *NM* - 15/08/2013 11:12:45 PM 264 Views
Yes. *NM* - 16/08/2013 05:07:44 PM 212 Views
+3 *NM* - 16/08/2013 10:19:46 PM 200 Views
Everyone hates each other. - 16/08/2013 05:18:54 PM 517 Views
That's awfully apocalyptic, don't you think? - 16/08/2013 07:34:12 PM 580 Views
No. - 17/08/2013 07:45:27 PM 599 Views
Why on earth would we want them shooting "those lunatics"? - 17/08/2013 09:46:58 PM 509 Views
A working democracy? How quaintly utopian. - 18/08/2013 05:00:10 AM 564 Views
You are confusing religous people with religous nations. *NM* - 17/08/2013 08:32:55 PM 230 Views

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