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If logic says so, then obviously that must be the only course of action possible.... Jay Sherman Send a noteboard - 19/07/2013 07:44:44 PM

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View original postYou are going to have to prove your assertion that blacks commit crime at higher rates than other races. Because they definitely get arrested and incarcerated at higher rates, but that does not automatically correlate to actually committing more crime in general.

The assumption that conviction rates by a demographic match actual criminal acts by that demographic is the Occam's Razor outcome, and thus since it by definition can't be proven is either way automatically is the one assumed to be most likely true without evidence indicating otherwise. There is good evidence to indicate black males accused of crimes are convicted more often then others accused of crimes but I've never seen anything credible to indicate the rate is so high as to close that gap, and Occam's Razor rules in absence of that, in this case that black males commit more violent crimes then other racial/gender demographic groups. Discard that and you must essentially discard all other criminal demographics, including that men re more likely to commit rape then women, because the same logic applies.

Most rapes are committed by men is unprovable, or at least not practically provable currently. But it is a logical inference of most convicted rapists being males and of most claims of rape accusing males of perpetuating them. It is not practically provable, but many things aren't and yet must still be discussed. I can't prove that anyone will die of old age in the next year, but I can strongly support that conclusion.



Whites are statistically arrested more often than blacks in Florida (since we have been discussing Florida all this time) for a large majority of crimes committed. This is the raw total number of arrests and not as a function of their respective population distribution. However, we are supposed to assume that the high conviction rates are due to blacks committing these crimes in such higher numbers than whites that, by nature, blacks must be some sort of criminal race. Florida's statistics on numbers of arrests made (which I've linked below) bears this out -- that whites are typically arrested roughly the same or more often than blacks for a large number of crimes.

So then we need to ask, why are blacks more likely to not only be convicted, but to be thought of as more likely to commit crimes? Certainly, as a percentage of population, blacks are statistically more likely to commit certain crimes than whites (notably robbery more than others). However, given that more whites are arrested by raw total, and that blacks are typically given harsher sentences for the same crimes, and that blacks are typically convicted at higher rates in general, I don't think you can simply throw up your hands, claim Occam's Razor precludes drawing any conclusions and call it a day.

Edited to add: because of my lookup of the specific number of arrests, I take back my claim that blacks are arrested more often. The data does not seem to bear this out except for a few select crimes.

Florida crime stats from 1998-2011
This message last edited by Jay Sherman on 19/07/2013 at 07:48:31 PM
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You forgot to mention that Zimmerman didn't actaully use a stand your ground defense *NM* - 18/07/2013 02:03:51 AM 327 Views
the judge included it in the instructions to the jury - 19/07/2013 04:37:43 AM 552 Views
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so she did - 19/07/2013 01:08:08 PM 527 Views
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I imagine he meant to type NAACP. *NM* - 18/07/2013 08:25:26 PM 270 Views
It's a combination of even more guns in circulation and no duty to retreat if you feel threatened - 18/07/2013 09:13:47 PM 515 Views
blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate because they commit crime at a higher rate - 19/07/2013 04:31:06 AM 542 Views
[citation needed] - 19/07/2013 06:12:04 PM 483 Views
Don't be tedious, such a claim is unprovable but also the most logical inference - 19/07/2013 07:10:22 PM 544 Views
If logic says so, then obviously that must be the only course of action possible.... - 19/07/2013 07:44:44 PM 627 Views
Um, how'd you get that out of my remarks? - 19/07/2013 08:48:09 PM 510 Views
Honestly, I feel like we are getting into some dangerous territory here - 24/07/2013 06:25:15 PM 588 Views
I wonder what we can call the racism version of Godwinning. - 24/07/2013 07:01:20 PM 512 Views
Reductio ad Racism maybe? *NM* - 24/07/2013 08:16:28 PM 240 Views
We? I don't feel I'm in dangerous territory at all - 24/07/2013 08:10:24 PM 456 Views
lets look at your numbers becuase they are interesting - 20/07/2013 03:25:31 PM 510 Views

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