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Re: Sure Jay Sherman Send a noteboard - 16/07/2013 10:07:13 PM

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View original post1. Zimmerman claimed to be getting out of his truck to "read a street sign" to give to the police dispatcher despite the fact there are only three streets in his neighbourhood, and that he's lived there for several years, and he should be able to remember three street names after that much time in the neighbourhood.

It does not matter why he got out of the truck, and you can't prove what he could or could not recall on a dark rainy night.
View original post2. Zimmerman claimed to have no knowledge of the "Stand Your Ground" laws, despite receiving an "A" grade and being proclaimed one of the best students in his criminal justice class which specifically covered these laws.

It does not mater what he knows of the laws. I got A's in many classes that I couldn't tell you the first thing about now.
View original post3. Zimmerman claims Martin started the altercation, despite the testimony of Rachel Jeantel who was actually speaking to Martin when the altercation began. Her version is completely at odds with Zimmerman's version of how the struggle began between the two.

The physical evidence supports the theory that Martin initiated the physical altercation. Jentel testified that she believes that she heard Martin say "get off" after hearing "grass sounds" whatever those are. Of course she never mentioned this in any of her initial interviews with the police. Nor do we KNOW what the context of that statement is, especially since there is no evidence that Zimmerman was ever physically "on" Martin, only the opposite.
View original post4. Zimmerman claims Martin pounded his head into the sidewalk 20-25 times, despite no DNA evidence on Martin other than a small amount on two fingers. This trace amount of DNA evidence is consistent with the punch in the nose, but the vast majority of punches in the nose are not life-threatening and do not justify murder.

Let me get on top of you after breaking your nose (by the way, if I punch you and break your nose, you won't find ANY blood on my hand afterwards, because you won't start leaking until after I am no longer touching you. Simply the way it works)and bounce your head on the ground a few times and see if you THINK your life is in danger or are able to count how many times your head hits the ground. Legally it only matters if the jury believes that Zimmerman reasonably THOUGHT his life was in danger. As for your characterization of "trace" amounts and lack of Z's blood on M, It all depends on where Martin grabbed him, hair, ears, shoulders, There really wasn't enough bleeding by either of them for this to matter much.
View original post5. Zimmerman claims Martin circled his vehicle in a menacing fashion, but yet failed to mention this to the police dispatcher during his call.

What happened prior to the physical altercation really doesn't matter much unless you believe (in spite of all the physical evidence to the contrary) that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation because they are legally two separate unique events.
View original post6. Zimmerman claims Martin jumped out of some bushes and ambushed him, despite there being no bushes in the vicinity of where they struggled.

Possibly verbal elaboration that is fairly standard in all witness testimony and not that vital. He could also be referring to bushes that were 20 feet away. The emphasis you are placing on this is disproportionate.
View original post7. Zimmerman claims Martin reached for his gun, despite the fact that the gun was black, in a black holster, behind his hip where Martin would have had a lot of trouble viewing it in the dark during a physical altercation. There are also no fingerprints on the weapon other than Zimmerman's.

If you wear a gun, you are constantly conscious of where it is locate. Any motion towards that portion of your body is immediately thought to be an attempt to reach for your weapon. Extend your hand toward the hip of a police officer some time and check his nigh-unconscious reactions. All Martin would have had to do was place a hand on his hip and Zimmerman would have interpreted that as a motion toward his weapon. What Zimmerman reasonably BELIEVED, at that moment,is rather key here, not what Martin was actually doing, or could even possibly do.


View original postThese are some of the biggest lies he told, not to mention the dialogue which sounds like a 1950s film noir detective story which he attributed to Martin. "You're gonna die tonight" and "Do you have a problem? Well you do now" etc etc.

Did Zimmerman spin his story? Probably. Did Jeantel? Yeah, most likely, Witness statements are NEVER 100% correct. Heck one "ear" witness said, in court, that there were multiple gunshots (there was only 1), is that person a liar too, or just suffering for poor recollection, like every other flawed human.

The PHYSICAL evidence is the most telling, and the least subjective. All the damage was done to Zimmerman, no damage was done to Martin (except for the gunshot wound). This leads to the conclusion that Martin was the aggressor in the physical altercation. The next key decision is if Zimmerman (as a matter of law) provoked that physical altercation. There is no objective evidence that he did (Jeantel is subjective), but abundant historical evidence (Zimmermans previous communications with the police)showing hus unwillingness to confront other people in the past under similar circumstances. On this point the evidence is either a wash, or favors Zimmerman (textbook reasonable doubt). Next we come to the "imperfect self-defense" that we covered under other threads which may, or may not, come into play here if, without any reliable evidence, you think Zimmerman initiated the physical attack.

I'm sorry you find yourself unable to emotionally agree with the verdict, but it was COMPLETELY proper.


The verdict was far from proper, but it is what it is. The prosecution spent too much time on the how of their fight rather than the why of their fight. The only reason they are in a fight is completely because of Zimmerman's actions. If he waits for Martin to actually commit a crime, he comes off as a much more sympathetic figure, rather than a simply pathetic figure. The prosecution seemed to phone it in and proved more of the defense's case than they should have, but then I don't think they wanted the case at all from the beginning.

You also should stop treating Zimmerman as though he were an actual law enforcement officer. I have no doubt that an actual officer is sensitive about his weapon, just as I have no doubt Zimmerman was acutely aware of where his weapon was located. Just because he had a license to carry a weapon does not mean he was a full-fledged law officer. And we are still only left with Zimmerman's version of events, and one of the biggest problems comes from your continued insistence that his story is the absolute truth for whatever reason you have for believing him. We all can see that Zimmerman distorted many facts to make himself the victim.

And yes, the physical evidence refutes his claims of a vicious attack, no matter your belief that it does not. Somehow Martin slammed Zimmerman's head into the pavement multiple times without touching him? It is not believable. Just as it is not believable that he simply left his vehicle to find a street sign of a street he has been the de facto watchman of for several years, even though he admits to pursuing Martin on foot at one point. So either he got out of his vehicle and was ambushed, or he pursued Martin and ended up in a fight. The two stories are mutually exclusive but yet both were told by Zimmerman at one time. Thankfully for Zimmerman, he was not on trial for truth-telling or he would be in prison for sure for all the lies and distortions he has told in this case.

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Zimmerman = Not Guilty - 14/07/2013 04:04:07 AM 1778 Views
Any charge, other than stupidity, was rediculous. *NM* - 14/07/2013 04:24:09 AM 503 Views
Stupidity+Death= Manslaughter *NM* - 14/07/2013 05:27:39 AM 474 Views
But hey... - 14/07/2013 05:35:11 AM 1000 Views
And THAT is the scary precendent this case sets for the populace - 14/07/2013 05:28:03 PM 1131 Views
Oh puhleeze... can you get any more rediculous? *NM* - 14/07/2013 07:22:52 PM 623 Views
HyogaRott baby, you are hurting me here. Can you please stop this? - 14/07/2013 11:29:00 PM 884 Views
If inline spellcheck doesn't catch it, I probably won't either. - 15/07/2013 06:29:29 AM 815 Views
you really are small minded little bigot - 15/07/2013 03:57:01 AM 902 Views
+1 - Seriously has imlad always been this nuts? *NM* - 15/07/2013 04:32:33 AM 537 Views
Your reply is partisan and obnoxious. - 15/07/2013 02:15:13 PM 903 Views
So it was okay that he was on top of a guy, pounding his head into the pavement? - 14/07/2013 06:45:17 PM 906 Views
If you can believe Zimmerman's side of the story is 100% truth, I have a bridge for sale... - 15/07/2013 05:35:08 PM 1004 Views
do you have actual evidence to support zimmerman lied? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:43:42 PM 503 Views
Sure - 16/07/2013 06:49:20 PM 788 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 07:53:27 PM 948 Views
Re: Sure - 16/07/2013 10:07:13 PM 987 Views
Re: Sure - 17/07/2013 03:26:15 AM 926 Views
The kid decided to beat a man who had a gun and got shot for it - 15/07/2013 03:46:38 AM 881 Views
In a sane world, here is how their interaction plays out - 15/07/2013 05:44:26 PM 846 Views
Yes. And the fact that he didn't simply ask him what he was doing, tells me he was racial profiling - 15/07/2013 08:59:41 PM 838 Views
The only way that statement makes sense is if it is sarcasm - 16/07/2013 12:46:59 PM 789 Views
And tomorrow I get to preach about the Good Samaritan. - 14/07/2013 05:26:50 AM 1066 Views
Where's your forgiveness?? Judge not lest ye be judged. - 14/07/2013 07:10:14 PM 831 Views
Did I say a thing about Zimmerman? No. - 14/07/2013 08:44:26 PM 969 Views
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Which neighborhood watch were you referring to? - 15/07/2013 12:46:44 AM 931 Views
Float your concept of grace in front of your priest sometime. - 15/07/2013 04:31:34 AM 802 Views
Danny... - 15/07/2013 01:32:03 PM 898 Views
You'd think the rain of venom in here would make everyone's soapbox too slippery to stand on - 15/07/2013 01:05:41 PM 846 Views
+1 *NM* - 15/07/2013 06:40:15 PM 558 Views
would that be true for most of politics as well? *NM* - 16/07/2013 12:58:33 PM 523 Views
Depends on the case, but those aren't individual life and death criminal trials - 16/07/2013 01:52:00 PM 765 Views
when the president gets involved it is safe to polotics are at play. - 16/07/2013 06:23:54 PM 819 Views
That's not an unfair remark but it justifies criticizing him, not also getting involved in the case - 16/07/2013 06:59:53 PM 831 Views
When a case shows glaring holes in the law, it should by nature cause those laws to be reconsidered - 16/07/2013 07:18:57 PM 925 Views
I'm not sure what those 'glaring holes' are, but a specific person shouldn't be needed to show them - 16/07/2013 08:18:38 PM 824 Views
It is a bit difficult to not use the case when the specificity of the case is the problem.... - 16/07/2013 11:06:59 PM 894 Views
I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 12:14:39 AM 958 Views
Re: I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so - 17/07/2013 05:29:56 PM 958 Views
I think you've over-personalized this case - 17/07/2013 08:00:50 PM 879 Views
I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 17/07/2013 10:34:38 PM 933 Views
Re: I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice - 18/07/2013 01:39:17 AM 1072 Views
Jury instructions - 18/07/2013 04:12:29 AM 1024 Views
Jury Instructions 2 - 18/07/2013 06:22:33 PM 882 Views
I just want to comment on two points from your reply - 19/07/2013 09:47:06 PM 786 Views
I'm pretty throughly exhausted of this - 19/07/2013 10:46:22 PM 891 Views
Nice. - 16/07/2013 09:01:50 PM 976 Views
Thanks - 16/07/2013 09:48:00 PM 812 Views
Well said. - 17/07/2013 02:25:36 PM 976 Views
it is possible to discuss a case based on what the evidence shows - 17/07/2013 06:03:05 PM 967 Views
Of course it is possible, one just fails to see how it can serve any good end - 17/07/2013 09:43:02 PM 832 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 18/07/2013 02:08:25 AM 588 Views
That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 02:52:15 AM 868 Views
Re: That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you - 18/07/2013 04:09:51 AM 982 Views
are agree with your general concept - 18/07/2013 05:20:41 PM 1107 Views
Good. - 15/07/2013 02:11:12 PM 800 Views
Perhaps one day black people will have the same rights as whites in the US - 15/07/2013 05:30:00 PM 968 Views
Congratulations on making one of the dumbest statemets of the year. *NM* - 15/07/2013 09:00:46 PM 565 Views
You have tried retroatcively making Martin a criminal here, despite him doing nothing wrong - 15/07/2013 10:52:32 PM 854 Views
So you support attacking creepy crackers who you think are following you? - 16/07/2013 12:56:52 PM 849 Views
The law suggests that if I fear for my safety, I am justified in attacking first in self-defense - 18/07/2013 11:00:58 PM 922 Views
there is zero evidience to support that assumption - 19/07/2013 04:25:15 AM 785 Views
Let's see - Martin was using drugs..... - 16/07/2013 04:56:13 PM 843 Views
Does that mean he should have been hunted down and shot? *NM* - 16/07/2013 05:22:43 PM 515 Views
He wasn't, so your question is irrelevant. - 16/07/2013 05:37:27 PM 768 Views

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