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Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry Send a noteboard - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM

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Yes a few fringe people over here behave this way but it is intellectually dishonest to compare this to the massive hordes the come and chant death to America and State sponsored events or attacks people because they heard someone dishonored a book. I am willing to admit that the problem may not be the religion but that just makes the people and their culture the problem but either way there is a problem.

There are certainly more than quite a few "Christians" who've done such heinous things in this country. Beyond the mosque burnings of the past decade or so, there are certainly a few other "mass" events in this section at least, such as the torching and bombing of quite a few black churches by the Klan and others of their ilk. Many of said events justified by particular interpretations of Christianity.

I think the roots are more social and political than anything inherently religious. There certainly weren't these amounts of anti-Muslim protests in the US until after the political event (terrorism is politics carried out to an extreme, some might say) of 9/11. There certainly weren't as many flag burnings, bombings, etc. before political events of the 20th century in the Middle East and North Africa.

Yet the result is a bunch of aggrieved people who feel that they have to get "revenge" for what others have done. A true crisis of modernity in which the "opiate of the masses" is heated and melted to mold into whatever contours are required by their adherents in order to deal with their frustrations, anger, etc. It is no accident that certain sectors of Christianity rail against evolution, secular society, and competing faiths. Same holds true for certain sects of Islam in that in a world where believers are besieged by political, social, and scientific events that threaten their worldviews that some will turn to violence.

The forms of this reaction may vary based on group standing in a larger society (after all, some form of Christianity or its remnants is dominant in the US and Europe while quite a few Muslims are not yet allowed to be fully integrated into Western societies - or some choose themselves not to become assimilated), but to claim that one is the "fringe" and the other "the center" is a specious claim. There's a bit more commonality than that and that is why I linked to that story, because the motives are not that dissimilar.

Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2976 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 956 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 859 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 920 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1468 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1576 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 874 Views
FALSE! - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1584 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1531 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1759 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1562 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1852 Views
Ok....and? - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1422 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 913 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1502 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 946 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1548 Views
LOL. - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1479 Views
Violence.... - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1520 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1355 Views
You are something... - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1424 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 914 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1405 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1484 Views
Yes. - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1410 Views
Re: Yes. - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1492 Views
You know better than that. - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1480 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1563 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 849 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1434 Views
... ? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 898 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 842 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1451 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1352 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1523 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1481 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1482 Views
Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1562 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1574 Views
No, it actaully does not. - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1536 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1383 Views
Exactly - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1471 Views
Couple of things - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1813 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1628 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1485 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1487 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1511 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1356 Views
That's a shame. - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1333 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1362 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1320 Views
Sure, I'll bite. - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1519 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1415 Views
I hope you like black and white. - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1338 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1423 Views
I think I must have confused you. - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1328 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1397 Views
Not really - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1422 Views
Yawn. Bored now. - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1377 Views
whatever *NM* - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 791 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1674 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1539 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1757 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1351 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1452 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1421 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1606 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 795 Views
I agree. *NM* - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 862 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1530 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1442 Views
Oh, so its our fault... - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1405 Views
It's always our fault *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 990 Views
In general, I agree - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1570 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1441 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 911 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1494 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1333 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1550 Views
Exactly. - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1480 Views
Hyperbole? - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1329 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1593 Views
No, I really don't think so. - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1390 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1347 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1520 Views
It's accurate. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 877 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1406 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1524 Views
Hm - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1479 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1498 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1442 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 862 Views
No - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1490 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1447 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1427 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 900 Views
I already knew - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1368 Views
No. - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1397 Views
What a load of bullshit. - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1408 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1556 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1529 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1389 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1496 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 833 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1433 Views
Well yes. - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1379 Views
I would prefer to say that - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1575 Views
Of course you would. - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1491 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1580 Views
Ok. - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1581 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1806 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1642 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1494 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1479 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 891 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 831 Views
Statistically - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1543 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1531 Views
Hardly any - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1664 Views
I think probably not. - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1438 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 822 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 811 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 820 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1370 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 859 Views
Yes, he did. - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1406 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 864 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1339 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1463 Views
You mean like this? - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1548 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1383 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 841 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1435 Views
Yes it does. - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1437 Views
*sigh* - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1312 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1358 Views
no but they do tell a story - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1271 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1442 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 858 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1628 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2170 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1505 Views
Just as a little aside - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1378 Views
Ever helpful. - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1582 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2158 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1552 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2132 Views
I'm having warm feelings. - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1532 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1950 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1764 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1140 Views
How much did you miss it, really? - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1467 Views

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