Active Users:1086 Time:24/10/2025 06:03:49 PM
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM

If a Christian killed a Muslim and then another Muslim came on this board complaining about violent Christians, and I said something like "I hate it when Muslims look down their noses at Christianity when their own religion has had all sorts of violent terrorists," I doubt anyone would be calling the Muslim out for defending his religion and its followers, even if I didn't personally say he himself was one of those terrorists. And I doubt anyone would be taking my side, either. At the very least, I'd be told I should have phrased my comment in a less inflammatory way and clarified exactly who I was tarring with my nasty little brush. And understandably so. But those rules don't apply when it's Christians being treated that way. Instead, we are told we're either too thin-skinned, are told we should have given the original poster the benefit of the doubt and assumed the most positive interpretation of his words is what he meant, or told our objection proves the other person's point. What I see here is blatant favoritism, regardless of how well you guys try to dress it up.

When a Muslim does something terrible today it absolutely has no bearing on how we should view or treat any other Muslim and in no way justifies any sort of retaliatory actions towards them.

When a Christian did something terrible 300 years ago, it is still relevant today and should be taken into account when deciding how valid any other Christian's opinion or beliefs are. It also at least partially justifies retaliatory actions against them today because we don't live in a bubble and actions in the past can come back to haunt us in the present.

What is this, Bizzaro-Stormfront?


View original postThat first sentence really isn't a very accurate representation of Ghavrel's statements, I suppose you're aware of that.

View original postIt seems to me you're getting confused by mixing "Christianity" with "Christians". What he complains about is not "Christians today taking the moral high ground", it is Christians today claiming that Christianity as a religion is morally better than Islam as a religion, in some kind of ahistorical, contextless moral ranking of religions.

No, that's you putting words in his mouth to spin his statement in the most positive way you can. His actual statement was far more simplistic.


View original postRegardless, my point was not to somehow blame Jeo for identifying with people who lived long ago, far away or both. Essentially everybody in the world does that, it's entirely natural. I was merely profiting from the occasion to illustrate Ghavrel's point about how people's actions do not occur in a vacuum, and have contexts, as we all have our personal connections, associations and emotions linking us to other people past or present. Which does not mean that people don't bear responsibility for their actions; but it does mean that actions can lead to reactions, sometimes even from people quite far away or quite a lot later.

And my point was that you were acting like he identified with them automatically and that proved your point, when instead, he identified with them because the initial argument lumped him in with them and continued from there.


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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2890 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 890 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 810 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 866 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1379 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1471 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 815 Views
FALSE! - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1489 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1436 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1670 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1462 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1752 Views
Ok....and? - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1316 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 858 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1393 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 898 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1438 Views
LOL. - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1380 Views
Violence.... - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1422 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1240 Views
You are something... - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1307 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 869 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1309 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1394 Views
Yes. - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1315 Views
Re: Yes. - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1367 Views
You know better than that. - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1372 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1458 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 801 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1333 Views
... ? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 846 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 794 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1359 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1253 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1435 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1371 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1384 Views
Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1459 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1472 Views
No, it actaully does not. - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1440 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1271 Views
Exactly - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1372 Views
Couple of things - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1706 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1526 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1396 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1382 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1406 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1260 Views
That's a shame. - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1202 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1277 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1222 Views
Sure, I'll bite. - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1401 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1304 Views
I hope you like black and white. - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1246 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1322 Views
I think I must have confused you. - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1224 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1298 Views
Not really - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1331 Views
Yawn. Bored now. - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1250 Views
whatever *NM* - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 737 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1581 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1438 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1655 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1240 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1368 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1329 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1485 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 745 Views
I agree. *NM* - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 804 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1434 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1318 Views
Oh, so its our fault... - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1312 Views
It's always our fault *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 935 Views
In general, I agree - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1475 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1322 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 858 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1397 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1239 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1458 Views
Exactly. - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1370 Views
Hyperbole? - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1205 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1476 Views
No, I really don't think so. - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1272 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1247 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1417 Views
It's accurate. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 827 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1311 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1427 Views
Hm - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1374 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1403 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1349 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 804 Views
No - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1398 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1352 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1324 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 854 Views
I already knew - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1286 Views
No. - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1310 Views
What a load of bullshit. - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1312 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1456 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1435 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1278 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1394 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 788 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1323 Views
Well yes. - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1282 Views
I would prefer to say that - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1485 Views
Of course you would. - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1401 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1475 Views
Ok. - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1475 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1701 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1539 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1403 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1381 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 841 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 781 Views
Statistically - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1455 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1441 Views
Hardly any - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1562 Views
I think probably not. - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1350 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 767 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 758 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 753 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1270 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 800 Views
Yes, he did. - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1312 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 804 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1239 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1367 Views
You mean like this? - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1438 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1261 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 793 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1344 Views
Yes it does. - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1344 Views
*sigh* - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1225 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1241 Views
no but they do tell a story - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1184 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1366 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 799 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1534 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2066 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1411 Views
Just as a little aside - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1282 Views
Ever helpful. - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1481 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2039 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1434 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2012 Views
I'm having warm feelings. - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1428 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1850 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1671 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1070 Views
How much did you miss it, really? - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1361 Views

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