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There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM

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You just ignored the points I made to link to something that you don't agree with. So they stood up and said something against America? That does not mean that they haven't also told off the terrorists for abusing Islam. There is a difference to calling someone an enemy combatant when they are, you know, shooting at you, and to denouncing someone for killing a soldier on his home soil, in cold blood, and claiming it's for Allah.

I think you're talking to the wrong person if you want me to say that America categorically deserves no criticism for Iraq. I've always been aware that I'd probably want to kill people too, if they invaded my space and endangered my family. I guess I'm just not appropriately patriotic.


As I said above, you will regularly see some supposed "spokesmen" for peaceful Islam on a news network. Unfortunately they are often on Al Jazeera 30 minutes later condemning the infidels.

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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2902 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 903 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 821 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 875 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1389 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1489 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 822 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1502 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1449 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1687 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1477 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 908 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1470 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1685 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1768 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1330 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 847 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 866 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1413 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 906 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1458 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1391 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1433 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1259 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1327 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 894 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1373 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 878 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1329 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1403 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1334 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1390 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1608 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1398 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1477 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 810 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1352 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 857 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 802 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1378 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1268 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1450 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1385 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1399 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1477 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1491 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1456 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1298 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1386 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1728 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1545 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1339 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1374 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1407 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1401 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1422 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1272 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1224 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1287 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1236 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1420 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1323 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1260 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1338 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1242 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1312 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1344 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1266 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 746 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1590 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1456 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1674 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1258 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1379 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1345 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1499 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1503 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 752 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 815 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1449 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1334 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1320 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1329 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 942 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1487 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1337 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 871 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1418 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1251 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1478 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1383 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1228 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1497 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1295 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1270 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1431 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 836 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1326 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1438 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1397 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1417 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1365 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 812 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1411 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1373 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1340 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 863 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1301 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1422 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1319 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1338 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1241 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1327 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1354 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1471 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1456 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1291 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1414 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 793 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1353 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1345 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1304 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1502 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1414 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1494 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1496 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1714 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1550 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1413 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1391 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 849 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 788 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1469 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1456 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1578 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 758 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1266 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1269 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1312 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1362 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 776 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 770 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 762 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1286 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 811 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1328 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 808 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1250 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1385 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1452 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1274 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 800 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1357 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1359 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1233 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 817 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1265 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1197 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1375 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 805 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1550 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2077 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1434 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1303 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1496 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2057 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1457 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2033 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1440 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1866 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1685 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1074 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1381 Views
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