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There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM

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You just ignored the points I made to link to something that you don't agree with. So they stood up and said something against America? That does not mean that they haven't also told off the terrorists for abusing Islam. There is a difference to calling someone an enemy combatant when they are, you know, shooting at you, and to denouncing someone for killing a soldier on his home soil, in cold blood, and claiming it's for Allah.

I think you're talking to the wrong person if you want me to say that America categorically deserves no criticism for Iraq. I've always been aware that I'd probably want to kill people too, if they invaded my space and endangered my family. I guess I'm just not appropriately patriotic.


As I said above, you will regularly see some supposed "spokesmen" for peaceful Islam on a news network. Unfortunately they are often on Al Jazeera 30 minutes later condemning the infidels.

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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2990 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 967 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 865 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 927 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1480 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1586 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 880 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1595 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1546 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1770 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1574 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 965 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1585 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1790 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1861 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1438 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 888 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 920 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1512 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 954 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1555 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1494 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1535 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1364 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1436 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 952 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1475 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 921 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1414 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1500 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1422 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1507 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1703 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1494 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1579 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 856 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1445 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 904 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 849 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1467 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1365 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1537 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1496 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1493 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1571 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1590 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1552 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1394 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1485 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1823 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1644 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1432 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1473 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1496 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1501 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1527 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1366 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1351 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1379 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1332 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1533 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1427 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1350 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1432 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1340 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1409 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1435 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1393 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 799 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1688 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1552 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1769 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1362 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1462 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1438 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1596 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1623 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 803 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 869 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1544 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1454 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1427 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1416 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 996 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1581 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1463 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 919 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1504 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1341 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1560 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1491 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1341 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1609 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1399 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1358 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1530 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 884 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1420 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1539 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1487 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1506 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1450 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 867 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1502 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1455 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1438 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 908 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1377 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1518 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1414 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1442 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1336 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1423 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1452 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1571 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1544 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1400 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1509 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 840 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1459 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1444 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1389 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1590 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1505 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1592 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1593 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1818 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1653 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1511 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1491 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 900 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 836 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1554 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1540 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1675 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 802 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1356 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1357 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1412 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1453 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 829 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 817 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 828 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1386 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 866 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1417 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 875 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1354 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1474 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1561 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1396 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 847 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1453 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1451 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1325 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 865 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1368 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1280 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1456 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 866 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1638 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2187 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1514 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1387 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1596 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2170 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1568 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2146 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1540 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1964 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1775 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1159 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1477 Views
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