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Probably, I don't know why that surprises you Isaac Send a noteboard - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM

View original posti think we are just going to have to leave this where it is, because it's becoming increasingly difficult to continue having a reasoned dialogue when anything i could possibly say on the subject is met with "typical left response" or "that's a favorite of the liberals".

When that applies it is what I'm going to say. You don't claim that the things I said are untrue or that they aren't common arguments from the left, you just object to me calling a spade a spade. Well I have heard these arguments I labeled as common quite frequently, some are new, or new-ish, common thought thread but different flavor, and I don't label them, and label or not I explained my objections.


View original postfor the record, my opinions on how to deal with the gun culture in this country are from years of my own musings on the subject, and my own experiences with actual street level violence, and any similarity to any "official" positions you disagree with are probably due to others reaching similar conclusions.

Most people feel that way, not sure how true it really is or that its an admirable thing. Anecdotal experience is often a very bad basis for drawing conclusions off of, and certainly bad to prove cases from.


i could easily go through all of your posts here and add "that's a favorite argument from right wing gun nuts" but i don't think it accomplishes anything other than denigrating your opinions out of hand without actually considering whether they have merit. if that is how this is going to go, then i am ending it now. good day...

You wouldn't need to, you regularly insulted various right wing beliefs and I outright said I agreed with them, I am very unclear on why it is deemed offensive to use 'common arguments'. I called out one of yours on the grounds that it was common and used what I consider to be very flawed logic, which I explained. It wasn't that it was common, it's that I consider it flawed and something said so often people no longer try to consider it critically, it 'just is' to them. I happen to believe life begins at conception, more or less, you wouldn't offend me by saying that was a common right wing argument. I'd object to the 'gun nuts' bit, I don't recall having said anything equivalent but I might have.

Still I agree this is a good place to call it quits. As I said a long way back I didn't expect us to make any real headway, you can exit when you please and this is probably as good a time as any other.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 27/03/2013 at 02:05:11 AM
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1321 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 735 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 370 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 586 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 608 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 639 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 564 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 603 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 602 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 564 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 641 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 669 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 563 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 837 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 591 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 640 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 730 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 965 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 735 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 582 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 525 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 570 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 549 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 528 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 779 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 745 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 759 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 932 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 567 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 550 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 840 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 653 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 534 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 569 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 315 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 588 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 652 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 547 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 576 Views
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So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 300 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 328 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 298 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 671 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 583 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 323 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 587 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 564 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 610 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 547 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 604 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 306 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 707 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 552 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 846 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 859 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 754 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 470 Views

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