Active Users:1110 Time:23/11/2024 02:13:40 AM
This is a matter of POV bias Isaac Send a noteboard - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM

View original post
View original post
View original postthis last one is something the NRA has historically refused to publicly get behind. the only reason i can think of for the lack of support is that it is in the NRA's best interests to allow criminals to continue to buy guns on the black market, or else the idea of a gun for self defense is not as powerful an argument as it otherwise would be. since the NRA gets a kickback on every gun sold in the US, it only makes sense they want more people to buy more guns. by allowing straw sales to go unchecked and unprosecuted, the NRA can stand on the side and say "look how dangerous our country is! criminals are buying guns on the street right in our neighborhoods! we need a gun for home defense to protect ourselves from this threat!"

That's a bit convoluted and demonizing for me, and kind of damages my reception of your other remarks. I consider the NRA a respectable and vital organization, much like the ACLU.


i used to think the NRA was a respectable organization, misguided though i find some of their arguments on gun rights to be. i find it tiring to admit that i've been participating in this debate for over 20 years and we seem to only move towards greater armament of criminals despite overwhelming evidence from other countries that certain specific legal restrictions work to deter criminals from possessing guns.

20 years ago, the NRA did a lot of respectable work, and still operate one of the best training courses for the under-18 crowd. over the last 20 years, as it's become obvious the NRA represents gun manufacturers more than the gun owners themselves, i continually question whether or not they are truly concerned with the safe and responsible operation of firearms by individuals.

as i said, when a percentage of every new gun sold goes into the NRA's operating fund, it's not difficult to imagine why the NRA's solution to all crime is "buy a gun". it's in their financial self-interest to keep guns flowing, and their rhetoric (especially LaPierre's "lack of government control after a disaster" speech to the Senate) is more alarmist and dystopian than ever. i find such talk to be irresponsible and completely divorced from what self-identified NRA members have been asking for, especially since the Newtown massacre. there was definitely a time when the NRA had my respect, but more and more they lose it when people like Wayne LaPierre opens his mouth to paint yet another grim and miserable picture of a society in disarray in which owning a gun is the only possible solution to survive.


I could replace a lot of the nouns in there with environmentalist causes and get back "Well of course solar and wind manufacturers donate to the Hugatree Foundation, they care about our right to breathe clean air. Yes it is true a Hugatree member endorsed forced sterilization of much of the population but he doesn't speak for them all, he retracted the remark, and he was just venting about the very legitimate concern of overpopulation". How much of your new animosity for them comes from years of struggling on the other side against them and hearing 'from a bad light' remarks directed at them?

That happens to me a lot, I'll have to stop and take a breath and remind myself that X group donating to Y cause is not corruption and sabotage of democracy but merely a combination of self-interest and agreeing with their cause. Same a lot of the nasty remarks directed at some public figure would be shrugged off as irrelevant or even positive if they were a neutral or an ally. I resent when they are directed at people I'm aligned to, and most of the time these days I can catch myself when I hear them directed at someone I'm opposed to and say "That really isn't relevant, that really does degrade both them and us"

You imply it is wrong that the NRA seems to view arming people in swaths as a goal, to you it apparently is, to me it is not. When the NRA says we should try to get more people armed I simply nod my head in approval, that it profits the gun manufacturers and the NRA not only doesn't bug me but is something I view as a positive thing. I'm glad a business I approve of has turned a tidy profit and I'm glad an organization I approve of has gained additional supporters/followers/funds to assist the cause.

Remember, I want virtually everyone armed and trained, I don't picture 99% of the population with a gun on their hip at all times but I would like most people to be comfortable with one and I'd like to know that if I walk into a room of a dozen random people the odds are at least one or two of them are packing and know how to use it.

You're essentially saying the NRA is wrong for pursuing a goal I entirely support and I don't think you've absorbed that. Your language is negative but you have still described activities by them which I find not only acceptable but actively approve of.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Reply to message
US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1322 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 735 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 370 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 586 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 608 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 639 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 564 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 604 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 602 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 565 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 641 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 670 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 564 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 837 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 591 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 642 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 731 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 965 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 735 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 582 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 526 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 571 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 551 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 528 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 780 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 745 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 759 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 569 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 315 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 588 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 653 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 547 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 577 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 620 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 559 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 312 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 300 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 328 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 298 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 673 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 584 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 323 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 589 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 565 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 610 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 549 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 604 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 306 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 707 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 553 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 846 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 860 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 754 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 470 Views

Reply to Message