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There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions Isaac Send a noteboard - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM

Affiliation tends to blind us to the other side, but I think on gun rights the left perennially forgets that the right is not seeking to change the law, the left is, and nothing is ever offered except a slightly lesser change. I don't want a national gun registry, but many of us might except one in exchange for something else. Minor horse trading is pretty common but nobody wants to do the big stuff anymore. Guns are a big issue to the right, a principal issue, what would the left trade of equal value?

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill Anonymous2000 - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1380 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics moondog - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 798 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* Roland00 - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 395 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... Anonymous2000 - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 664 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." moondog - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 672 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 710 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... moondog - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 621 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions Isaac - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 672 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 642 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 630 Views
Absolutely HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 700 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... Isaac - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 744 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 676 Views
Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so Isaac - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM 712 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. moondog - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 671 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 651 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... moondog - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 709 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... HyogaRott - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 667 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 580 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 668 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." moondog - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 781 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 678 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible moondog - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 663 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. HyogaRott - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 739 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 746 Views
That would depend, something of equal value Isaac - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 639 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? moondog - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 911 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 661 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining moondog - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 714 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 796 Views
some answers moondog - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1032 Views
Re: some answers Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 795 Views
Re: the NRA moondog - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 656 Views
This is a matter of POV bias Isaac - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 589 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then moondog - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 649 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining Isaac - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 622 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) moondog - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 591 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) Isaac - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 851 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding moondog - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 817 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap Isaac - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 825 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1008 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try Isaac - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 628 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually moondog - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 614 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue Isaac - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 899 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... moondog - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 716 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you Isaac - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 599 Views
There are many more laws and regulations on the industry than you seem to be aware of. HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 03:58:19 PM 690 Views
the existing laws and how they are enforced are completely different problems moondog - 20/03/2013 05:32:31 PM 697 Views
I have no problems with actually enforcing existing laws, in fact I want to see that before new 1 *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:17:40 AM 352 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce random thoughts - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 642 Views
as with most laws, some amount of grandfathering will probably be necessary moondog - 20/03/2013 05:34:57 PM 618 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 350 Views
I can't argue that random thoughts - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 658 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting moondog - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 730 Views
what is high capacity? random thoughts - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 622 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit moondog - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 648 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* Nighthawk - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 684 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes Jeordam - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 632 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 341 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* Jeordam - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 327 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 351 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* Nighthawk - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 322 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 732 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 665 Views
*NM* ironclad - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 350 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers Isaac - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 661 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 636 Views
So what's your solution? Smaller sentences? Or death penalty for everybody? Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 06:33:13 PM 646 Views
I don't have a truly viable one. I just have a bunch of ideas that no one would want to enact. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:49:58 PM 652 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book Isaac - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 676 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 612 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop Isaac - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 665 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* Ghavrel - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 334 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 783 Views
For what its worth.... Jeordam - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 628 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... callandor1000 - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 919 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 930 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... callandor1000 - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 845 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 548 Views
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