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I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM

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there are still bills pending for magazine size, background checks for all sales, and gun trafficking -- all of which are supported by a majority of Americans. i couldn't care less about assault weapon bans as long as we expand background checks. while we're at it, may as well start requiring gun shops to actually keep track of inventory, and prosecute those shops who sell guns to criminals, especially if those guns go on to commit actual crimes.

there is still plenty more to do, so pushing for a ban that is unpopular and doesn't do a whole lot to stop the violence is counter productive.


Magazine size is irrelevant & the federal background check system needs to be reworked so that it actually functions as intended in a timely manner. I just wish that people would loose the rhetoric and and have rational discussions on the topic. BTW, federally licensed gun shops rarely sell to ineligible buyers, and most of the sellers at gun shows are federally licensed dealers, and absolutely keep track of inventory and sales. The penalties if they do not are extreme.

"Mr gun dealer, we found this weapon at a murder"
"I sold it last month."
"Who did you sell it to?"
"Uhhh, I don't recall."
"You have the right to remain silent..."

..and assault weapons have been all but banned since the late 30s.

I personally disagree with the majority of the current gun laws because I feel that they violate the Constitution. I think that if we want to curtail gun rights then the correct thing is to amend the Constitution to allow it, but none of the gun control crowd seem to have the courage of their convictions to try and do it the right way.

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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill Anonymous2000 - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1379 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics moondog - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 796 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* Roland00 - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 395 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... Anonymous2000 - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 662 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." moondog - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 670 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 709 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... moondog - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 619 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions Isaac - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 669 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 640 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 629 Views
Absolutely HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 698 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... Isaac - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 742 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 674 Views
Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so Isaac - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM 705 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. moondog - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 670 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 649 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... moondog - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 707 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... HyogaRott - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 665 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 578 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 667 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." moondog - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 780 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 676 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible moondog - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 661 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. HyogaRott - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 736 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? moondog - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 746 Views
That would depend, something of equal value Isaac - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 637 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? moondog - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 908 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 659 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining moondog - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 713 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining Isaac - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 794 Views
some answers moondog - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1030 Views
Re: some answers Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 793 Views
Re: the NRA moondog - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 654 Views
This is a matter of POV bias Isaac - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 587 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then moondog - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 647 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining Isaac - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 616 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) moondog - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 590 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) Isaac - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 849 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding moondog - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 817 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap Isaac - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 823 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... moondog - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1005 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try Isaac - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 627 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually moondog - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 613 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue Isaac - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 899 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... moondog - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 714 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you Isaac - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 597 Views
There are many more laws and regulations on the industry than you seem to be aware of. HyogaRott - 20/03/2013 03:58:19 PM 689 Views
the existing laws and how they are enforced are completely different problems moondog - 20/03/2013 05:32:31 PM 695 Views
I have no problems with actually enforcing existing laws, in fact I want to see that before new 1 *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 12:17:40 AM 352 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce random thoughts - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 640 Views
as with most laws, some amount of grandfathering will probably be necessary moondog - 20/03/2013 05:34:57 PM 615 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 350 Views
I can't argue that random thoughts - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 656 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting moondog - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 728 Views
what is high capacity? random thoughts - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 621 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit moondog - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 647 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* Nighthawk - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 682 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes Jeordam - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 630 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 341 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* Jeordam - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 327 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 350 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* Nighthawk - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 322 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 731 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 663 Views
*NM* ironclad - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 350 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers Isaac - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 658 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. HyogaRott - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 634 Views
So what's your solution? Smaller sentences? Or death penalty for everybody? Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 06:33:13 PM 644 Views
I don't have a truly viable one. I just have a bunch of ideas that no one would want to enact. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:49:58 PM 650 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book Isaac - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 674 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners Nighthawk - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 611 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop Isaac - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 665 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* Ghavrel - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 334 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice Isaac - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 781 Views
For what its worth.... Jeordam - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 626 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... callandor1000 - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 919 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. HyogaRott - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 928 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... callandor1000 - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 840 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. HyogaRott - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 546 Views
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