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yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... moondog Send a noteboard - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM

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1a: I do not admit to TRYING to make SS look bad, I AM PROVING THAT IT IS BAD. There is a difference. You obviously think I ma wrong, prove it. YOU show me some math that makes SS look like anything but crap. I dare you.

you are not proving anything, you are only pulling a number out of thin air and pretending it can create a mythical $1.2 million retirement package at an unheard of 11% rate of return. if you were in a mathematical proof class they would tell you that you can't prove something works for all cases by using a specific case, especially such a specific case that you assert is correct without showing any evidence to support it.


View original post1b: It is post tax not pre-tax. I too incorrectly thought it was a pre-tax withholding until I was corrected a few months ago when I had this discussion in a different forum. Try using Google.

FICA gets taken out of your gross wages with some few exceptions. but for all intents and purposes it is pre-tax.

regardless, the overall point is this: your mysterious minimum wage earner who can afford $48/month for a retirement investment will never invest their post-tax income. social security is taken before they even know it was there, and they will never have that money to invest for themselves. and you are still missing the point that when this minimum wage earner finally retires, social security will be the only thing they can rely on for income. again, if you want to replace it with something else, convince companies to offer guaranteed pensions again, rather than 401(k)s -- which the majority of minimum wage earners will also probably never have access to.


View original post1c: 7.5, 6.2, 12.4, 15, whatever, it is still more than my my chosen percentage of 4% and it returns MUCH less money. Allow me to have that 4%, and Uncle Sam can keep his medicare too. With 8K a month in income, I can buy my own freaking health insurance. (BTW, I used 7.5/7.5 because that is the commonly cited number split I was aware then that it was not exact but frankly I didn't care; because as long as it is above my 4% that far outperforms SS, it is irrelevant)

and you are missing the point here as well: the purpose of SS is to provide a minimum retirement income to everyone. you have the legal right to refuse to apply to take benefits when you get older. but stop trying to frame the issue as "private investment is better" because that's not what SS is about. of course you can get a better return on investment on private plans if you invest intelligently and have the disposable income to do so. but if you lose your job at age 50 and work several part-time jobs (if you're lucky) until 65, you're going to appreciate that benefit being there to supplement whatever other investments you've put away if they still exist.

unfortunately, this is the reality we face now. too many older workers are being pushed out of the workforce early and having to make do with jobs that they are forced to take because they are not able to move up in their chosen profession anymore. you're going to tell all of these people they should refuse the benefits they're entitled to because you don't like having to pay into the system. you're no better than the people who say they shouldn't pay into public education while simultaneously complaining about how stupid our kids are today. guess what? just because you don't get as much money back as you want doesn't mean you aren't making someone else's life a little better. if you can't see the purpose in paying into a system which allows everyone to retire with some degree of income stability then you don't understand what it means to be a member of society.


View original post3: I'm a parasite because I don't want to rely on others to take care of me in my old age... Not sure you you equate that position and the word logic. I challenge you to find any post of mine ANYWHERE, in any forum, in which I advocate for ending Social Security, or even altering it, for anyone currently receiving it or so close to it that there is no other alternative for them. Here is a clue, you won't find one. Nor has anyone, contrary to lots of propaganda, from any political party (specifically the Republican party) done so. Get a clue, and loose the rhetoric. I have posted the math, and the math is 100% accurate. I know you prefer to ignore anything you don't agree with, so be it. As for your threat to not respond,... yay. Until you have something substantial, I'd really prefer you didn't post. Some day I hope you will post an intelligent or insightful political comment, but thus far my hopes have been in vein.

no, you're a parasite on the social security system because you are going to grumble about how much you pay into it, and that you can get a better deal on your own, but then still collect it when you finally retire. part of being in a supposedly enlightened society is the fact that we pay into a tax program which provides us something in return. good for you that you are working and feel like you can do better than the government in preparing for your old age and retirement years. i highly doubt you are going to be self-sufficient all the way up until you die, but i sincerely hope you are.

i'm also not going to argue the semantics of what you've posted, but you have used the words "foolish" and "bad" to describe your opposition to social security, and you've said it should be replaced. but if you can't see that helping people who are less fortunate than yourself is everyone's responsibility in this country, then i'm not sure what it is you expect by continuing to function in this societal framework we all share.

"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1303 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 741 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 867 Views
Good lord my friend..... - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 782 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 824 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 430 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 457 Views
I really do not think I did. - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 861 Views
I'm pretty confident you have - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 846 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 767 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 911 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 982 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 788 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 815 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 797 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 712 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 876 Views
*sigh* - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 706 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 788 Views
Here are some clues. - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 650 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 804 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 880 Views
Indeed. - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 789 Views
Re: Indeed. - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 974 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 668 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 737 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 803 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 777 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 860 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 811 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 852 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 723 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1069 Views
No loss. - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 663 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 738 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 710 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 766 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 787 Views

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