Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it?
Joel Send a noteboard - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM
Your math is appalling regardless; do not quit your day jo—oh... crap.... 
View original postIf you make $7.00 an hour, working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, that comes out to be $14,560 a year. If you invest 4%, that comes out to $48.00 a month. If you do that for 50 years – this is assuming that you never get a raise - you’d have ~$1,253,000. That would give you ~$8,300 a month after you retire, and when you die, your family still has over a million dollars.
$7/hrX40 hrs/weekX4 weeks/monthX0.04=$44.80/month. Still closer than the other figures you cited: $44.80/monthX12 months/yearX50 years=26,880=/=1,253,000. Saving every penny of a $14,560 annual income (which is ridiculous; it is below the federal poverty level for a family of just 2) only gets to $728,000. Maybe you meant some kind of investment with a 4% rate of return, but I honestly have no idea how you got to the number you did; 44.8/month compounded annually at 4% only reaches $85,356.78 in 50 years; compounded MONTHLY the first month ALONE reaches about 1/3 of the current SS trust fund by then.
View original postSocial Security’s monthly benefit for the same individual (via their online calculator) is $664. However, they were taking 15% (7.5% from the individual and 7.5% from the employer) of his income; almost 4 times as much money. With Social Security, when you die, you leave nothing but Social Security’s wonderfully generous $255 death benefit (payable only once per family), and unless you were fortunate enough to die on the first day of the month, someone has to reimburse the government for your last $644 check (no prorating over the month, even if you died on the last day) in full.
First of all, 7.5% of an individuals income plus the same from their employer is NOT taking 15% from an individual. Further, saving 4%/month of $14,560/year is STILL only $26,880. At $664/month, SS surpasses that in just 4.5 years even if we ignore the death benefit.
Your first sign of trouble should have been concluding someone earning less than federal poverty level can retire a millionaire. 
View original postThe math is “..so simple even a caveman can do it.”
Then maybe you should call one.
View original postSocial (in)Security is a complete rip-off, and there can be no debate about it; facts are facts.
Social security costs you 4 times as much, and returns about 1/12th the money.
Please tell me you are a marketer, not an actuary; I NEED that to be true.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 04/03/2013 at 04:10:38 AM
Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years?
- 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM
1303 Views
Medicare? *NM*
- 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM
521 Views
No, Medicare has only been around about half as long.
- 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM
808 Views
Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate.
- 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM
728 Views
No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare
- 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM
792 Views
I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary
- 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM
717 Views
I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM
782 Views
Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions.
- 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM
775 Views
From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security.
- 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM
902 Views
Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years.
- 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM
749 Views
It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant.
- 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM
819 Views
Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme?
- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
785 Views
- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
785 Views
You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM*
- 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM
488 Views
Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted.
- 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM
874 Views
My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM*
- 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM
429 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it.
- 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM
743 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. 
- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
868 Views
- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
868 Views
Good lord my friend.....
- 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM
784 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it.
- 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM
824 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM*
- 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM
430 Views
I really do not think I did.
- 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM
861 Views
I'm pretty confident you have
- 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM
846 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM
769 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that
- 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM
912 Views
Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis.
- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
838 Views
- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
838 Views
Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"?
- 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM
768 Views
You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong.
- 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM
844 Views
Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
811 Views
- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
811 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by
- 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM
789 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party?
- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
816 Views
- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
816 Views
I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them
- 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM
927 Views
Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate
- 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM
739 Views
Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it
- 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM
873 Views
I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM*
- 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM
426 Views
It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery.
- 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM
845 Views
It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance.
- 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM
845 Views
Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label.
- 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM
984 Views
You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS.
- 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM
764 Views
"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim..
- 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM
742 Views
Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal
- 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM
745 Views
That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM
1198 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them
- 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM
799 Views
An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect.
- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
777 Views
- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
777 Views
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah
- 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM
723 Views
"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left."
- 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM
842 Views
Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it.
- 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM
802 Views
"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier.
- 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM
863 Views
You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't.
- 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM
673 Views
I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen.
- 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM
782 Views
*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM
731 Views
Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM
1004 Views
Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against
- 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM
688 Views
?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM
848 Views
you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant
- 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM
696 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return...
- 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM
714 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it?
- 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM
877 Views
*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM
707 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill.
- 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM
790 Views
Here are some clues.
- 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM
651 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not.
- 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM
804 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't
- 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM
882 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement
- 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM
670 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything?
- 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM
737 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means?
- 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM
804 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there.
- 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM
779 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once?
- 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM
862 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented.
- 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM
811 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM
853 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM
723 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this....
- 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM
1071 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile?
- 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM
740 Views