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You are using an epistle to say every word of all epistles is divinely inspired? Joel Send a noteboard - 13/02/2013 10:00:36 PM
2 Timothy 3:15-17

"15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Notice that there is no hedging that bet?

"But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment" and "But to the rest I, not the Lord, say" are pretty big hedges. Every word of every epistle is straight from the mouth of God, even the parts that say outright they are NOT? God is enacting the Liars Paradox? That just does not work, man.

All scripture. And well, here's a topic that we often discussed at school...do you think that the council that decided what was and was not cannon was not similarly inspired? That the books that made it, and the books that did not were chosen for a purpose? Do you truly believe that God would leave something like that up to us alone? You know as well as I do that God acts in today's day and age.

Have a little faith dude. ;)

~Jeordam

Scripture says David was the apple of Gods eye, but that did not stop him having a man killed to take his wife. Humans, even Gods most faithful servants, are still HUMAN, and free will remains a very real thing. So, yes, I think much, most of the canon was chosen by divine inspiration. But—WHICH canon?

The first one, chosen in the Second Century by Marcion, whom the Church declared a heretic soon thereafter? Marcion followed divine inspiration throughout his Church career? Not only when selecting the first NT canon (rejecting many books now considered canonical now) but when denying Christs physical body (and therefore both the Crucifixion and Jesus' dual nature) and asserting God the Father was a distinct entity in opposition to a the "lesser" OT deity who created the world?

Perhaps Origens, even though he was ALSO eventually condemned as a heretic, and his canon included the Shepherd of Hermas, while excluding James, I Peter and II & III John?

We do not even KNOW for certain when the Roman Catholic canon was first compiled, let alone how; it is theorized to have been at the Synod of Hippo Regius, but no records of that council exists.

Maybe we should accept Luthers canon, even though he sought to remove Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation (which is why they come last in most modern Protestant bibles, including the KJV.) In comparing those two, by the way, what are we to make of the Apocrypha, which the Roman Catholic canon includes, and even Luther only segregates from but WITHIN the rest of scripture, but the KJV and most other Protestant bibles exclude?`

In other words, the biblical canon is not even settled among various Christian denominations NOW, but are we to accept one of the many alternative canons from the Churchs first centuries as authoritative?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Early_Church

Sure, I have faith: In GOD, not men.
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Which of these seven different modern canons do you consider divinely inspired?
This message last edited by Joel on 13/02/2013 at 10:02:56 PM
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So the Pope has resigned Wibble - 11/02/2013 01:01:59 PM 1282 Views
Re: So the Pope has resigned HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 02:29:13 PM 695 Views
As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:05:34 AM 650 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 12/02/2013 09:21:30 PM 599 Views
One mistake in my original post..... Anonymous2000 - 13/02/2013 01:27:48 AM 607 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:35:14 AM 564 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:45:23 PM 648 Views
Luke or Paul? Isaac - 13/02/2013 04:36:27 PM 583 Views
That is what I get for only having decaf coffee this morning... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 05:43:57 PM 647 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:36:03 PM 486 Views
Re: I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. HyogaRott - 14/02/2013 11:12:34 PM 597 Views
Hate to jump you again but are you sure you mean Timothy? Isaac - 14/02/2013 11:54:00 PM 626 Views
Yep, I ment Timothy HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:18:21 AM 592 Views
Re: Yep, I ment Timothy Isaac - 15/02/2013 11:03:16 AM 618 Views
If "the bible is still the bible," then what of Deborah, Huldah and Phoebe, to name but a few? Joel - 13/02/2013 06:17:44 PM 709 Views
Why wouldn't it still be devinely inspired? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:44:07 PM 632 Views
Um, because then God was lying when He inspired someone to write "this is not Gods commandment." Joel - 13/02/2013 07:42:15 PM 601 Views
You're missing a really key point Jeordam - 13/02/2013 09:13:32 PM 652 Views
You are using an epistle to say every word of all epistles is divinely inspired? Joel - 13/02/2013 10:00:36 PM 783 Views
Let us take it full circle: The ecclesiastical authority of women Joel - 13/02/2013 10:21:26 PM 676 Views
Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 11:02:28 PM 668 Views
Oh, certainly; I just felt like I was dragging you with me kicking and screaming. Joel - 14/02/2013 01:05:14 AM 632 Views
So Roman Catholic priests CAN marry, under tortuous conditions? Interesting.... Joel - 13/02/2013 03:40:48 PM 524 Views
A priest can't marry, but a married person can become a priest. HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:51:02 PM 564 Views
Heh, yeah, I guess I slightly mischaracterized what you were saying. Joel - 13/02/2013 05:54:05 PM 656 Views
There are a bunch of semi-Catholic denominations that allow priests to marry. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:06:13 PM 578 Views
That makes more sense. Joel - 13/02/2013 06:23:36 PM 655 Views
Here's my chance. I'm putting in my application. Palatine - 11/02/2013 04:20:52 PM 752 Views
Unfortunately it matters due to the power he has... Wibble - 11/02/2013 04:42:25 PM 689 Views
Religions don't work that way. They are full of moral absolutes. There is no flexibility *NM* Dark Knight - 11/02/2013 06:10:19 PM 329 Views
Of course there is flexibility. The minute their money is threatened they flex like mad... *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 06:25:02 PM 336 Views
I'd imagine Unitarians and several other religions would beg to differ Isaac - 11/02/2013 09:28:39 PM 671 Views
Hah, are you kidding? beetnemesis - 13/02/2013 02:20:54 PM 741 Views
You would like the Roman Catholic Church to do some good FOR ONCE?! Joel - 11/02/2013 08:00:26 PM 763 Views
Well said. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/02/2013 10:55:18 PM 365 Views
You give them too much credit. Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:19:06 PM 715 Views
Put on blinders much? HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 11:50:01 PM 643 Views
I lol'd. *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:54:09 PM 335 Views
Grant me Chastity and Continence, But Not Yet! *NM* Roland00 - 12/02/2013 03:35:26 AM 279 Views
Chastity: A Virtue best found in others *NM* Isaac - 12/02/2013 12:53:26 PM 284 Views
and continence too, apparently..... *NM* moondog - 14/02/2013 12:18:22 AM 353 Views
Well said. Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:43:47 AM 547 Views
You really don't know how human psychology works, do you? Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:28:23 PM 614 Views
..and you don't get that it isn't what people will/may do, but what they should. HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:22:26 AM 815 Views
It's not religion, it's HIV or no HIV. Legolas - 15/02/2013 10:45:52 PM 590 Views
it's not HIV or no HIV, it is about what people should do. HyogaRott - 16/02/2013 07:02:36 PM 639 Views
Of course they don't have to teach people how to use condoms. Legolas - 17/02/2013 10:46:38 AM 571 Views
You're showing some glaring bias and hostility here Isaac - 12/02/2013 01:58:17 PM 558 Views
No, you are giving them far too little. Joel - 13/02/2013 03:33:03 PM 572 Views
The catholic church is significantly growing in Africa and with Hispanics. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:41:54 AM 402 Views
Oh, that. Palatine - 12/02/2013 03:04:42 PM 525 Views
That's such a load Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:39:45 AM 628 Views
Oops, I meant to reply here - As a catholic.....my take. Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:39:42 AM 683 Views
I'd say the chances are about as good... Dragonsoul - 12/02/2013 03:48:29 PM 772 Views
So teh chances are excellent then! Good to know. Wibble - 12/02/2013 04:51:43 PM 613 Views
I doubt there's much of a chance of a real progressive. Stephen - 12/02/2013 06:38:14 PM 577 Views
IDK, two straight non-Italians? Will they put up with a 3rd? Has that even happened since Avignon? Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:46:28 AM 652 Views
Who says Benedict/Ratzinger is straight? Roland00 - 13/02/2013 04:56:52 AM 561 Views
Don't think so, but the Italians will have to get used to it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:34:24 PM 571 Views
This will be a very interesting time. Dannymac - 13/02/2013 06:27:41 PM 692 Views
He's retiring into a monastery in the Vatican, as I understand it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:42:14 PM 682 Views
Now this would be interesting.... Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:51:40 PM 651 Views
Right now I would settle for making up lost ground... Dannymac - 14/02/2013 05:02:38 AM 562 Views
Pope Bene-victed... Raserei - 19/02/2013 07:56:17 AM 795 Views
Hurrah, Ras. I love a good pun or three. *NM* Palatine - 19/02/2013 01:55:11 PM 264 Views
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