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Um, because then God was lying when He inspired someone to write "this is not Gods commandment." Joel Send a noteboard - 13/02/2013 07:42:15 PM
Sure, the writer full out says "this is me talking, not God." Don't you think that God could prompt the pen holder to clarify that? That God would give that person the freedom to write their thoughts down knowing what would happen in the future?

Yeah; on a few occasions it is rather clear He did just that, hence we have apostolic authors saying, "this is my position, not (necessarily) Gods." The problem is when God is NOT inspiring their words, He is not inspiring them to say THAT either. So how do we know which is which?

For me, it is a matter of consistency with the rest of scripture, and above all of harmony between the Holy Spirit and the text. The word of God communicated by the text and by the Holy Spirit must always be in harmony. If one understands the text to say something while all the time feeling the Spirit saying, "No, no NO!" then clearly what one is getting from the text is not Gods word. Likewise, if an Andrea Yates thinks the Holy Spirit is telling her to drown all her children, then commit suicide, the bible is a pretty good indication she is NOT hearing from the Holy Spirit.

Those early church fathers were no more awsome then anyone today. The big difference between them and us is that they were creating the church when there was no church. They were working that out in their world, in their culture, with no framework to go off of.

The other major difference was that they were at the start of this whole thing. They were in the time and place that God decided was the best place to inspire them to write down words for those who would come after.

But you are correct, it is the Holy Spirit that makes the difference. Without the HS now would be a most horrible thing.

~Jeordam

The Church Fathers had a unique place in history that gave unique insights to Christs intent for the Church. They were not, however, God, so they were neither infallible nor on the clock 24/7. And when we say, "the Church Fathers," that obviously and definitely includes the Twelve and the first apostles, a fact that, in my experience, many people tend to often overlook when it comes to divine inspiration. Just because something came from the pen of Paul, Peter or another of Christianitys seminal teachers, does NOT necessarily make it the divinely inspired word of God, ESPECIALLY when the author says point blank it is not. Unfortunately, when I say many people often overlook that, I fear I must include the the canons compilers. That leads me back to my previous point, which I trust is now clear. ;)
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So the Pope has resigned Wibble - 11/02/2013 01:01:59 PM 1284 Views
Re: So the Pope has resigned HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 02:29:13 PM 697 Views
As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:05:34 AM 652 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 12/02/2013 09:21:30 PM 601 Views
One mistake in my original post..... Anonymous2000 - 13/02/2013 01:27:48 AM 609 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:35:14 AM 566 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision..... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:45:23 PM 650 Views
Luke or Paul? Isaac - 13/02/2013 04:36:27 PM 585 Views
That is what I get for only having decaf coffee this morning... HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 05:43:57 PM 649 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:36:03 PM 487 Views
Re: I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. HyogaRott - 14/02/2013 11:12:34 PM 599 Views
Hate to jump you again but are you sure you mean Timothy? Isaac - 14/02/2013 11:54:00 PM 628 Views
Yep, I ment Timothy HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:18:21 AM 594 Views
Re: Yep, I ment Timothy Isaac - 15/02/2013 11:03:16 AM 619 Views
If "the bible is still the bible," then what of Deborah, Huldah and Phoebe, to name but a few? Joel - 13/02/2013 06:17:44 PM 711 Views
Why wouldn't it still be devinely inspired? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:44:07 PM 632 Views
Um, because then God was lying when He inspired someone to write "this is not Gods commandment." Joel - 13/02/2013 07:42:15 PM 603 Views
You're missing a really key point Jeordam - 13/02/2013 09:13:32 PM 654 Views
You are using an epistle to say every word of all epistles is divinely inspired? Joel - 13/02/2013 10:00:36 PM 783 Views
Let us take it full circle: The ecclesiastical authority of women Joel - 13/02/2013 10:21:26 PM 678 Views
Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote? Jeordam - 13/02/2013 11:02:28 PM 670 Views
Oh, certainly; I just felt like I was dragging you with me kicking and screaming. Joel - 14/02/2013 01:05:14 AM 634 Views
So Roman Catholic priests CAN marry, under tortuous conditions? Interesting.... Joel - 13/02/2013 03:40:48 PM 526 Views
A priest can't marry, but a married person can become a priest. HyogaRott - 13/02/2013 03:51:02 PM 566 Views
Heh, yeah, I guess I slightly mischaracterized what you were saying. Joel - 13/02/2013 05:54:05 PM 658 Views
There are a bunch of semi-Catholic denominations that allow priests to marry. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:06:13 PM 580 Views
That makes more sense. Joel - 13/02/2013 06:23:36 PM 657 Views
Here's my chance. I'm putting in my application. Palatine - 11/02/2013 04:20:52 PM 754 Views
Unfortunately it matters due to the power he has... Wibble - 11/02/2013 04:42:25 PM 691 Views
Religions don't work that way. They are full of moral absolutes. There is no flexibility *NM* Dark Knight - 11/02/2013 06:10:19 PM 329 Views
Of course there is flexibility. The minute their money is threatened they flex like mad... *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 06:25:02 PM 336 Views
I'd imagine Unitarians and several other religions would beg to differ Isaac - 11/02/2013 09:28:39 PM 673 Views
Hah, are you kidding? beetnemesis - 13/02/2013 02:20:54 PM 741 Views
You would like the Roman Catholic Church to do some good FOR ONCE?! Joel - 11/02/2013 08:00:26 PM 764 Views
Well said. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/02/2013 10:55:18 PM 365 Views
You give them too much credit. Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:19:06 PM 717 Views
Put on blinders much? HyogaRott - 11/02/2013 11:50:01 PM 645 Views
I lol'd. *NM* Wibble - 11/02/2013 11:54:09 PM 335 Views
Grant me Chastity and Continence, But Not Yet! *NM* Roland00 - 12/02/2013 03:35:26 AM 279 Views
Chastity: A Virtue best found in others *NM* Isaac - 12/02/2013 12:53:26 PM 284 Views
and continence too, apparently..... *NM* moondog - 14/02/2013 12:18:22 AM 353 Views
Well said. Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:43:47 AM 549 Views
You really don't know how human psychology works, do you? Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:28:23 PM 616 Views
..and you don't get that it isn't what people will/may do, but what they should. HyogaRott - 15/02/2013 04:22:26 AM 817 Views
It's not religion, it's HIV or no HIV. Legolas - 15/02/2013 10:45:52 PM 592 Views
it's not HIV or no HIV, it is about what people should do. HyogaRott - 16/02/2013 07:02:36 PM 641 Views
Of course they don't have to teach people how to use condoms. Legolas - 17/02/2013 10:46:38 AM 573 Views
You're showing some glaring bias and hostility here Isaac - 12/02/2013 01:58:17 PM 560 Views
No, you are giving them far too little. Joel - 13/02/2013 03:33:03 PM 574 Views
The catholic church is significantly growing in Africa and with Hispanics. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:41:54 AM 402 Views
Oh, that. Palatine - 12/02/2013 03:04:42 PM 527 Views
That's such a load Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:39:45 AM 630 Views
Oops, I meant to reply here - As a catholic.....my take. Anonymous2000 - 12/02/2013 03:39:42 AM 685 Views
I'd say the chances are about as good... Dragonsoul - 12/02/2013 03:48:29 PM 774 Views
So teh chances are excellent then! Good to know. Wibble - 12/02/2013 04:51:43 PM 615 Views
I doubt there's much of a chance of a real progressive. Stephen - 12/02/2013 06:38:14 PM 579 Views
IDK, two straight non-Italians? Will they put up with a 3rd? Has that even happened since Avignon? Cannoli - 13/02/2013 01:46:28 AM 654 Views
Who says Benedict/Ratzinger is straight? Roland00 - 13/02/2013 04:56:52 AM 563 Views
Don't think so, but the Italians will have to get used to it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:34:24 PM 573 Views
This will be a very interesting time. Dannymac - 13/02/2013 06:27:41 PM 694 Views
He's retiring into a monastery in the Vatican, as I understand it. Legolas - 13/02/2013 06:42:14 PM 683 Views
Now this would be interesting.... Jeordam - 13/02/2013 06:51:40 PM 653 Views
Right now I would settle for making up lost ground... Dannymac - 14/02/2013 05:02:38 AM 564 Views
Pope Bene-victed... Raserei - 19/02/2013 07:56:17 AM 797 Views
Hurrah, Ras. I love a good pun or three. *NM* Palatine - 19/02/2013 01:55:11 PM 264 Views
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