Heh, yeah, I guess I slightly mischaracterized what you were saying.
Joel Send a noteboard - 13/02/2013 05:54:05 PM
Although, now I think of it, that still seems odd, because a priest from a different denomination would not have been married in the Roman Catholic Church, so I would not think the latter would recognize the marriage. Obviously we cannot have priests "living in sin" (i.e. with a spouse to which he was married outside the church.)
It DOES seem improbable anyone would be so committed to another church they became ordained, then convert to Roman Catholicism. Of course, if it is reserved for churches already liturgically and doctrinally close to Roman Catholicism, that makes it more likely.
The whole reason for an unmarried clergy was to TRY and prevent family dynasties, and the beleif that the members of the congregation should be the only family that a priest should be concerned for, and a properly engaged preist would be unable to provider for his own family as a husband should. I can see some purpose to it in mideval Europe (much closer to our hunter/gather roots), but not in our modern soiety. It no longer takes half your day just to make sure that there will be food to eat that night.
Honestly, I think the whole idea of a celibate unmarried clergy a tragic mistake; it is the reason my reaction to the whole pedophile scandal was "well, DUH!" Forbidding priests marriage automatically disqualifies the vast majority of well-adjusted heterosexual men, and the increasing social acceptance of gay marriage places many gay men in the same boat: Both can openly live as they wish with no censure simply by foregoing priesthood. Pedophiles, on the other hand, can NEVER be accepted; exposure means disgrace and imprisonment whether or not they are priests, so ordination changes little: They just continue hiding their desires and predation from the world as they always have, hoping to escape detection.
I do not doubt for a moment MANY decent normal men seek the priesthood from sincerely deep devotion to God, despite having to forever sacrifice any hope of a spouse and children. However, I also believe relatively few men who have that hope in the first place are dedicated enough to sacrifice it for the priesthood; they sacrifice the priesthood instead. That restricts the pool of potential priests to a group with a disproportionate number of VERY undesirable candidates. Worse, their habitual, scrupulous and systematic concealment of their behavior makes them difficult to detect.
Meanwhile, I cannot help recalling the scriptural position is Pauls statement a bishop should be "the husband of one wife." If that is good enough for a bishop, it ought to be good enough for any inferior ordination. Then again, there is a reason I identify as a non-denominational Christian, a "small 'c'" catholic.
I'm a "lapsed" catholic as well.
A priest can actually be married, but the circumstances are rather twisted. Essentially they have to be married and ordained in another (i.e. Episcopalian) "Catholic lite" and then convert to Catholicism. It is rare, but there are a few. It is actually not a true "Word of God" tenant prohibition but doctrinal.
1. Priests getting married - possible (this essentially is church policy, but a bible/God's word issue)
A priest can actually be married, but the circumstances are rather twisted. Essentially they have to be married and ordained in another (i.e. Episcopalian) "Catholic lite" and then convert to Catholicism. It is rare, but there are a few. It is actually not a true "Word of God" tenant prohibition but doctrinal.
It DOES seem improbable anyone would be so committed to another church they became ordained, then convert to Roman Catholicism. Of course, if it is reserved for churches already liturgically and doctrinally close to Roman Catholicism, that makes it more likely.
The whole reason for an unmarried clergy was to TRY and prevent family dynasties, and the beleif that the members of the congregation should be the only family that a priest should be concerned for, and a properly engaged preist would be unable to provider for his own family as a husband should. I can see some purpose to it in mideval Europe (much closer to our hunter/gather roots), but not in our modern soiety. It no longer takes half your day just to make sure that there will be food to eat that night.
Honestly, I think the whole idea of a celibate unmarried clergy a tragic mistake; it is the reason my reaction to the whole pedophile scandal was "well, DUH!" Forbidding priests marriage automatically disqualifies the vast majority of well-adjusted heterosexual men, and the increasing social acceptance of gay marriage places many gay men in the same boat: Both can openly live as they wish with no censure simply by foregoing priesthood. Pedophiles, on the other hand, can NEVER be accepted; exposure means disgrace and imprisonment whether or not they are priests, so ordination changes little: They just continue hiding their desires and predation from the world as they always have, hoping to escape detection.
I do not doubt for a moment MANY decent normal men seek the priesthood from sincerely deep devotion to God, despite having to forever sacrifice any hope of a spouse and children. However, I also believe relatively few men who have that hope in the first place are dedicated enough to sacrifice it for the priesthood; they sacrifice the priesthood instead. That restricts the pool of potential priests to a group with a disproportionate number of VERY undesirable candidates. Worse, their habitual, scrupulous and systematic concealment of their behavior makes them difficult to detect.
Meanwhile, I cannot help recalling the scriptural position is Pauls statement a bishop should be "the husband of one wife." If that is good enough for a bishop, it ought to be good enough for any inferior ordination. Then again, there is a reason I identify as a non-denominational Christian, a "small 'c'" catholic.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
So the Pope has resigned
11/02/2013 01:01:59 PM
- 1283 Views
Re: So the Pope has resigned
11/02/2013 02:29:13 PM
- 696 Views
As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision.....
12/02/2013 03:05:34 AM
- 652 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision.....
12/02/2013 09:21:30 PM
- 599 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision.....
13/02/2013 01:35:14 AM
- 564 Views
Re: As a catholic, I am surprised, but please by the Pope's decision.....
13/02/2013 03:45:23 PM
- 648 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point.
13/02/2013 06:36:03 PM
- 487 Views
Re: I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point.
14/02/2013 11:12:34 PM
- 597 Views
Hate to jump you again but are you sure you mean Timothy?
14/02/2013 11:54:00 PM
- 628 Views
If "the bible is still the bible," then what of Deborah, Huldah and Phoebe, to name but a few?
13/02/2013 06:17:44 PM
- 711 Views
Why wouldn't it still be devinely inspired?
13/02/2013 06:44:07 PM
- 632 Views
Um, because then God was lying when He inspired someone to write "this is not Gods commandment."
13/02/2013 07:42:15 PM
- 601 Views
You're missing a really key point
13/02/2013 09:13:32 PM
- 652 Views
You are using an epistle to say every word of all epistles is divinely inspired?
13/02/2013 10:00:36 PM
- 783 Views
Let us take it full circle: The ecclesiastical authority of women
13/02/2013 10:21:26 PM
- 677 Views
Shouldn't you be able to answer this question from what you just wrote?
13/02/2013 11:02:28 PM
- 668 Views
Oh, certainly; I just felt like I was dragging you with me kicking and screaming.
14/02/2013 01:05:14 AM
- 633 Views
So Roman Catholic priests CAN marry, under tortuous conditions? Interesting....
13/02/2013 03:40:48 PM
- 524 Views
A priest can't marry, but a married person can become a priest.
13/02/2013 03:51:02 PM
- 564 Views
Heh, yeah, I guess I slightly mischaracterized what you were saying.
13/02/2013 05:54:05 PM
- 658 Views
There are a bunch of semi-Catholic denominations that allow priests to marry.
13/02/2013 06:06:13 PM
- 578 Views
Here's my chance. I'm putting in my application.
11/02/2013 04:20:52 PM
- 753 Views
Unfortunately it matters due to the power he has...
11/02/2013 04:42:25 PM
- 690 Views
Religions don't work that way. They are full of moral absolutes. There is no flexibility *NM*
11/02/2013 06:10:19 PM
- 329 Views
Of course there is flexibility. The minute their money is threatened they flex like mad... *NM*
11/02/2013 06:25:02 PM
- 336 Views
I'd imagine Unitarians and several other religions would beg to differ
11/02/2013 09:28:39 PM
- 672 Views
You would like the Roman Catholic Church to do some good FOR ONCE?!
11/02/2013 08:00:26 PM
- 764 Views
You give them too much credit.
11/02/2013 11:19:06 PM
- 716 Views
Put on blinders much?
11/02/2013 11:50:01 PM
- 643 Views
Grant me Chastity and Continence, But Not Yet! *NM*
12/02/2013 03:35:26 AM
- 279 Views
Well said.
13/02/2013 01:43:47 AM
- 548 Views
You really don't know how human psychology works, do you?
13/02/2013 06:28:23 PM
- 616 Views
..and you don't get that it isn't what people will/may do, but what they should.
15/02/2013 04:22:26 AM
- 815 Views
It's not religion, it's HIV or no HIV.
15/02/2013 10:45:52 PM
- 590 Views
The catholic church is significantly growing in Africa and with Hispanics. *NM*
12/02/2013 03:41:54 AM
- 402 Views
I doubt there's much of a chance of a real progressive.
12/02/2013 06:38:14 PM
- 578 Views
IDK, two straight non-Italians? Will they put up with a 3rd? Has that even happened since Avignon?
13/02/2013 01:46:28 AM
- 652 Views
This will be a very interesting time.
13/02/2013 06:27:41 PM
- 693 Views
He's retiring into a monastery in the Vatican, as I understand it.
13/02/2013 06:42:14 PM
- 683 Views