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the future.... moondog Send a noteboard - 24/01/2013 10:14:09 PM
i visited israel in 2002 and even at that time, there were almost as many palestinians in the occupied territories as there were jews in israel proper. i think the biggest reason the right in israel can do whatever they want is because they always had the US to back them up on just about anything except the E1 settlements. as long as the US government supports anything and everything the israeli government throws out there, it doesn't matter who the prime minister is.

In fairness, the US government doesn't always support anything and everything. US presidents in their second term, who no longer care about the votes controlled by the Israel lobby, have a tendency of trying their hand at the peace process with less restraint.


i actually see it more like "well, i can't be voted out for pretending to be tough on israel's position so i might as well pay lip service to ending the conflict". i give obama respect for trying to dive into it in his first term, and we can all see the results that has gotten him. between republicans trying to use the relationship between himself and netanyahu as a campaign talking point to being labeled the worst enemy of israel (or something to that effect). and he has taken the most moderate approach since clinton but he is still vilified as an enemy to US/israel relations. if obama returns to the negotiations in his second term i very much hope something permanent can come out of it.

i find it fascinating the cognitive dissonance that a lot of hard right israelis have on the peace process. on the one hand, they will publicly say how it's not natural for jews and arabs to live side by side peacefully and the arabs should find their own place to live, preferably as far from jews as possible. on the other hand, they don't want to give up any land to resolve the conflict. i'm not hopeful that the new government will take a more centrist approach to the palestinian conflict, but maybe this time will be different (yeah right :rolleyes: )

I'm not either - not with this election result, and with Yeir Lapid, leader of this supposedly centrist Yesh Atid, saying (according to Wikipedia): "I do not think that the Arabs want peace, I want to be rid of them and put a tall fence between us and them, to maintain a Jewish majority in the Land of Israel."

But I think we have some cause to be hopeful in the longer run, in the sense that this demographic threat being spelled out to the Israeli general public forms a more inexorable and obviously less bloody way for the Palestinians to gain the bargaining pressure they so desperately need.

You do have to wonder if Israel's impossible political system has anything to do with how long the peace process is dragged out... in a parliament more like the British or American one, would the Arabs and ultra-orthodox both have become active parts of major parties rather than being stuck in small and largely irrelevant parties that do nothing of note except complicating coalition formations and squabbling with each other? And would that have enhanced their integration into Israeli society?


the bedouin and druze seem to be the only non-jewish populations with any desire to be integrated into israeli society. and not even all the bedouin, mostly just the ones in the north (i.e. non-negev areas). the rest of the minority groups, as far as i can tell, just want to have equal rights. as long as most israelis look down on the arabs and others, i don't think they will ever have acceptance into a major party. even if israel concedes all the occupied territories to the palestinians, i doubt the arabs inside israel would be given equal rights to their jewish israeli counterparts. the best they can hope for is that this recent election is a foreshadowing of a leftward shift in israeli politics, but even then they won't see any benefit for another 10-15 years at this rate.

i do agree that the demographic issue will be the only real source of leverage for the palestinians going forward, but i don't think the political right will allow themselves to see the problem until it's too late to resolve things. most of them seem like they would be just fine living in an apartheid state if it meant they could claim victory to ending the conflict on their terms.
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