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last thoughts..... moondog Send a noteboard - 08/01/2013 05:18:35 PM
Beyond that I obviously don't want us to have less guns, I have to point out that with 200+ million guns the price of a a buy back would easy run mid two to low three digits of billions. And most studies I have seen have shown that it doesn't effect crime rates much.

are you assuming getting fair market value for each gun? maybe then it would run into the hundreds of billions. and that's assuming a buy back of every single gun in circulation. it's not necessary to buy back every single gun, just the ones people want to part with. as you are always so quick to point out, we still have a constitutional right to keep guns in this country. there is no scenario i can imagine where the government would buy back every single gun in existence. as i've said before, the concept is to minimize the destructiveness of having so many guns in circulation, not to forcibly take everyone's guns away from them if they are responsible owners.


If we're not buying back the majority of them, and thus not straining the budget much, then one has difficulty seeing how a limited buy back would eliminate having so many guns in circulation. San Francisco did one of these, got 400 guns, don't know how many are in San Fran, probably less than the nearly 1:1 ratio country-wide, but even if it were a tenth the normal we'd still be talking about a program that accounted for less than 1 in 1000 of the guns in the city. You seem to be suggesting a token program that burns money to no purpose.


on the contrary, i see gun buy backs as a similar service to the fed destroying money that can no longer be spent. getting excess guns out of circulation is, by default, making gun crime less likely.


I just don't see that petty crime as minor. Still, you are likely right on this being a futile conversation, neither of us a raging fanatic convinced the other is a drooling idiot nor are either of us likely to budge, so we are probably wasting our mutual breath. You have presented good arguments, but I do not find them compelling. I imagine you feel vice-versa about the latter and hopefully the former as well.


i understand you see this as primarily a personal rights issue, and i see this as primarily a public safety issue. there is plenty of room for both of us to be satisfied that our viewpoints are being upheld. the laws we have provide plenty of regulation of the other amendments, there is no reason the 2nd should be exempt from the same treatment.

i would say our debate is still stacked in your favor as i do not believe that guns should not exist at all, nor do i believe that all guns should be banned, or that people should have their guns taken from them without a valid legal framework such as felony conviction or other such lawful procedures. even so, i would hope that you can also see that we need stronger regulation of firearms if for no other reason than to try to keep the criminal element from getting their hands on them.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM 1041 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM* callandor1000 - 28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM 438 Views
I have this to say about that... DREWRULESWOT! - 28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM 846 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year Isaac - 28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM 612 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM* HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM 296 Views
See my response to Novo. Joel - 28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM 713 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies. HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM 658 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM 799 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM* Isaac - 29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM 357 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim. Joel - 29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM 676 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed... Isaac - 29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM 578 Views
... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go: Joel - 05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM 647 Views
Probably, but at least I'll listen Isaac - 05/01/2013 08:30:48 PM 682 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing. HyogaRott - 31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM 652 Views
Was that response meant for me or Correia? Joel - 05/01/2013 07:04:31 PM 621 Views
Re: I have this to say about that... Novo - 28/12/2012 05:23:44 PM 722 Views
Never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, nor shoot anything you do not mean to kill Joel - 28/12/2012 06:13:20 PM 674 Views
Still losing the gun debate and it's driving you a little crazy isn't it! Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 06:40:51 PM 545 Views
Gallup: 58% want more gun control; Ipsos: 70% want more gun control, 90% want background checks. Joel - 28/12/2012 10:29:50 PM 696 Views
..and 100% want to win the lottery, but it isn't going to happen. HyogaRott - 05/01/2013 02:17:50 PM 735 Views
None of that prohibits regulation, only outright bans. Joel - 05/01/2013 05:25:56 PM 700 Views
I totally disagree with that, it is just wrong-headed Isaac - 29/12/2012 03:51:19 AM 814 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...Actually, modern military weapons are constructed to wound Floffe - 29/12/2012 08:43:49 PM 785 Views
Great read, thanks for posting! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 05:52:29 PM 301 Views
Yeah, uh, no. Not until you do some serious background checks on teachers. Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:00:20 AM 726 Views
GOP estimates of teacher competence have increased to the point of giving them concealed guns. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:36:08 AM 812 Views
You know the GOP is unlikely to object to background check on teachers, the unions might Isaac - 29/12/2012 02:56:06 AM 676 Views
Thanks for posting that, I enjoyed it a lot A Deathwatch Guard - 29/12/2012 01:36:33 AM 637 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now" moondog - 07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM 688 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true Isaac - 07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM 715 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle moondog - 07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM 636 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral Isaac - 07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM 688 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho moondog - 07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM 730 Views
Re: moral has nothing to do with it, imho Isaac - 08/01/2013 05:40:46 AM 597 Views
last thoughts..... moondog - 08/01/2013 05:18:35 PM 623 Views
Data is data my friend. Please feel free to present your own data if you would like. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 05:49:09 PM 322 Views
Well I was referring more to the timing of collecting data. callandor1000 - 29/12/2012 04:28:01 AM 808 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney? Joel - 28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM 755 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM 313 Views
The goddamn frigging election. *NM* Stephen - 28/12/2012 07:13:04 PM 320 Views
Oh, was the NRA running for something? Good grief, was a ridiculous reach. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 08:07:56 PM 320 Views
No, but it shows Gallup polls are horseshit. *NM* Stephen - 28/12/2012 08:48:12 PM 312 Views
No it doesn't, it only shows that Romney was more awful of a candidate than Obama was. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 09:14:00 PM 329 Views
Not according to Gallup, just most US voters; Gallup DOES say 58% of the US wants more gun control. Joel - 28/12/2012 10:22:19 PM 855 Views
Yes. Most of us aren't against guns per se; we're against the inane concepts of gun "shows" Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:06:50 AM 594 Views
Exactly, crazy libs like Joel want to get rid of all guns, but normal Americans..... Anonymous2000 - 29/12/2012 01:36:00 AM 623 Views
Link a single post where I said I wanted to get rid of all guns. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:29:53 AM 723 Views
Then what would you suggest? Great Lord of Chaos - 29/12/2012 07:23:27 AM 740 Views
Too bad the radical fringe on both sides drowns us both out so well. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:25:31 AM 748 Views
Previous polling failures by Gallup are evidence for the claim that Gallup polls are flawed. Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:05:08 AM 748 Views
Gallup was Romney +1 with +/- 4% on Election Day.....turned out Obama +3. Anonymous2000 - 29/12/2012 01:33:45 AM 592 Views
So what I don't understand about this whole teachers with gun thing Spriteling - 30/12/2012 12:42:05 AM 729 Views
It would strictly be voluntary Isaac - 30/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 697 Views
You seriously don't think a linebacker can take a gun off a 5' teacher?He can just punch her. Ghavrel - 30/12/2012 09:45:05 AM 685 Views
He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers Isaac - 30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM 775 Views
Leveling that playing field is much of the point of guns. Joel - 05/01/2013 05:43:47 PM 734 Views
You aren't familiar with guns if you think that a large male can't disarm a woman who has one. Ghavrel - 07/01/2013 10:14:21 AM 692 Views
Well Paul Ali Slater didn't, disarming is risky, and he seems familiar enough with them to me *NM* Isaac - 07/01/2013 01:25:28 PM 357 Views
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