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moral has nothing to do with it, imho moondog Send a noteboard - 07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM
Beyond that I obviously don't want us to have less guns, I have to point out that with 200+ million guns the price of a a buy back would easy run mid two to low three digits of billions. And most studies I have seen have shown that it doesn't effect crime rates much.


are you assuming getting fair market value for each gun? maybe then it would run into the hundreds of billions. and that's assuming a buy back of every single gun in circulation. it's not necessary to buy back every single gun, just the ones people want to part with. as you are always so quick to point out, we still have a constitutional right to keep guns in this country. there is no scenario i can imagine where the government would buy back every single gun in existence. as i've said before, the concept is to minimize the destructiveness of having so many guns in circulation, not to forcibly take everyone's guns away from them if they are responsible owners.

also, i would argue that previous prohibitions have not worked in the US because they have not been done very thoughtfully. the "war on drugs" being one of the biggest prohibition failures in our history but yet we keep on trying the same failed policies and expecting different results. i don't think it's fair to keep throwing our hands up after each gun death and saying "we can't do anything about it". arming everyone will never be the correct solution.


You're making a case by assertion there, not backing it up with data and facts. You might consider this stuff obvious but it isn't to me, I am not against prohibition on guns, booze, drugs, etc out of hand, but I'm not much of a fan and I like to see evidence it would be effective. To me, from what I have seen, gun prohibitions have not been effective, and have even been counter-effective when you pull the rug off the hidden dust of prevented crimes, which the gun control crowd seems to do everything it can to ignore. Why is this type of prohibition more effective then others? What evidence is there?


the problem with comparing crime statistics is that there is no country in the world with as many guns per capita as the US. likewise, some states with a large number of guns (over 30% saturation) are not reporting reliable stats on their violent crime. we are talking violent crime, after all, not petty crime. there is no doubt that a lot of petty crime is prevented on a daily basis, but i would argue that non-lethal petty crime is a preferable alternative to the idea that one could be gunned down at any moment if we allow even more guns into our society. if you want data, it is already hard enough to come by in our own country, much less other ones. i honestly don't have time to compile something we could both analyze, and i'm not sure you'd be convinced anyway. in this case "let's just give up" might be the only option :P
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM 973 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM* callandor1000 - 28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM 407 Views
I have this to say about that... DREWRULESWOT! - 28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM 771 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year Isaac - 28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM 549 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM* HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM 271 Views
See my response to Novo. Joel - 28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM 640 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies. HyogaRott - 28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM 594 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head. Joel - 28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM 724 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM* Isaac - 29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM 326 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim. Joel - 29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM 613 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed... Isaac - 29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM 514 Views
... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go: Joel - 05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM 574 Views
Probably, but at least I'll listen Isaac - 05/01/2013 08:30:48 PM 618 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing. HyogaRott - 31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM 583 Views
Was that response meant for me or Correia? Joel - 05/01/2013 07:04:31 PM 554 Views
Re: I have this to say about that... Novo - 28/12/2012 05:23:44 PM 652 Views
Never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, nor shoot anything you do not mean to kill Joel - 28/12/2012 06:13:20 PM 613 Views
Still losing the gun debate and it's driving you a little crazy isn't it! Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 06:40:51 PM 485 Views
Gallup: 58% want more gun control; Ipsos: 70% want more gun control, 90% want background checks. Joel - 28/12/2012 10:29:50 PM 632 Views
..and 100% want to win the lottery, but it isn't going to happen. HyogaRott - 05/01/2013 02:17:50 PM 665 Views
None of that prohibits regulation, only outright bans. Joel - 05/01/2013 05:25:56 PM 630 Views
I totally disagree with that, it is just wrong-headed Isaac - 29/12/2012 03:51:19 AM 737 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...Actually, modern military weapons are constructed to wound Floffe - 29/12/2012 08:43:49 PM 721 Views
Great read, thanks for posting! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 05:52:29 PM 278 Views
Yeah, uh, no. Not until you do some serious background checks on teachers. Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:00:20 AM 660 Views
GOP estimates of teacher competence have increased to the point of giving them concealed guns. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:36:08 AM 751 Views
You know the GOP is unlikely to object to background check on teachers, the unions might Isaac - 29/12/2012 02:56:06 AM 614 Views
Thanks for posting that, I enjoyed it a lot A Deathwatch Guard - 29/12/2012 01:36:33 AM 559 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now" moondog - 07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM 624 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true Isaac - 07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM 652 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle moondog - 07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM 576 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral Isaac - 07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM 617 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho moondog - 07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM 669 Views
Re: moral has nothing to do with it, imho Isaac - 08/01/2013 05:40:46 AM 533 Views
last thoughts..... moondog - 08/01/2013 05:18:35 PM 556 Views
Data is data my friend. Please feel free to present your own data if you would like. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 05:49:09 PM 297 Views
Well I was referring more to the timing of collecting data. callandor1000 - 29/12/2012 04:28:01 AM 747 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney? Joel - 28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM 677 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM 288 Views
The goddamn frigging election. *NM* Stephen - 28/12/2012 07:13:04 PM 293 Views
Oh, was the NRA running for something? Good grief, was a ridiculous reach. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 08:07:56 PM 297 Views
No, but it shows Gallup polls are horseshit. *NM* Stephen - 28/12/2012 08:48:12 PM 287 Views
No it doesn't, it only shows that Romney was more awful of a candidate than Obama was. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 28/12/2012 09:14:00 PM 302 Views
Not according to Gallup, just most US voters; Gallup DOES say 58% of the US wants more gun control. Joel - 28/12/2012 10:22:19 PM 787 Views
Yes. Most of us aren't against guns per se; we're against the inane concepts of gun "shows" Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:06:50 AM 526 Views
Exactly, crazy libs like Joel want to get rid of all guns, but normal Americans..... Anonymous2000 - 29/12/2012 01:36:00 AM 585 Views
Link a single post where I said I wanted to get rid of all guns. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:29:53 AM 659 Views
Then what would you suggest? Great Lord of Chaos - 29/12/2012 07:23:27 AM 666 Views
Too bad the radical fringe on both sides drowns us both out so well. Joel - 29/12/2012 02:25:31 AM 681 Views
Previous polling failures by Gallup are evidence for the claim that Gallup polls are flawed. Ghavrel - 29/12/2012 01:05:08 AM 681 Views
Gallup was Romney +1 with +/- 4% on Election Day.....turned out Obama +3. Anonymous2000 - 29/12/2012 01:33:45 AM 523 Views
So what I don't understand about this whole teachers with gun thing Spriteling - 30/12/2012 12:42:05 AM 662 Views
It would strictly be voluntary Isaac - 30/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 641 Views
You seriously don't think a linebacker can take a gun off a 5' teacher?He can just punch her. Ghavrel - 30/12/2012 09:45:05 AM 619 Views
He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers Isaac - 30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM 716 Views
Leveling that playing field is much of the point of guns. Joel - 05/01/2013 05:43:47 PM 667 Views
You aren't familiar with guns if you think that a large male can't disarm a woman who has one. Ghavrel - 07/01/2013 10:14:21 AM 631 Views
Well Paul Ali Slater didn't, disarming is risky, and he seems familiar enough with them to me *NM* Isaac - 07/01/2013 01:25:28 PM 325 Views
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