... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go:
Joel Send a noteboard - 05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM
... by arguments you never presented to me.
I will see if I can slog at least part way through it to find a few more tomorrow if you like; the length and number should make it easy.
But teachers aren’t as trained as police officers! True, yet totally irrelevant. The teacher doesn’t need to be a SWAT cop or Navy SEAL. They need to be speed bumps.
Not true; they need to be SAFE speed bumps, not opening fire at any provocation or none. They need to know how to clean and maintain their weapon so it fires when required—and NO other time. Remember when you were educating Sprite about shoulder holsters and thumb breaks? Since that was how you suggested teachers prevent someone grabbing their gun, is it not logical to think any teachers carrying a gun at school should know about them?
Correias argument here is that his career is superfluous: Even HE does not believe it, so why should anyone else?
Just make it so that your state’s concealed weapons laws trump the Federal Gun Free School Zones act.
No one not already convinced thinks this a slamdunk argument. I mean, seriously, make state law superior to federal law so guns become common and widespread in schools? Do you HONESTLY think people outraged by school shootings will support that?
After Virginia Tech, I started teaching college students for free as well. They were 21 year old adults who could pass a background check. Why should they have to be defenseless?
No reason at all; I fully support all such peopls having any gun they can afford. Correia is arguing against gun control by saying, "21 year olds who pass a background check and get weapons training should be able to have one." That IS gun control, and Correia is GREATLY misrepresenting gun control to suggest otherwise.
I do agree with him on one point though:
Permit holders are not cops. The mistake many people make is that they think permit holders are supposed to be cops or junior danger rangers.
I could not have said it better.
Now let us consider his series of examples:
I testified before the Utah State Legislature about the University of Utah’s gun ban the day after the Trolley Square shooting in Salt Lake City. Another disaffected loser scumbag started shooting up this mall. He killed several innocent people before he was engaged by an off duty police officer who just happened to be there shopping. The off duty Ogden cop pinned down the shooter until two officers from the SLCPD came up from behind and killed the shooter. (turned out one of them was a customer of mine) I sent one of my employees down to Trolley Square to take a picture of the shopping center’s front doors. I then showed the picture to the legislators. One of the rules was NO GUNS ALLOWED.
The man that attacked the midnight showing of Batman didn’t attack just any theater. There were like ten to choose from. He didn’t attack the closest. It wasn’t about biggest or smallest. He attacked the one that was posted NO GUNS ALLOWED.
There were four mass killing attempts this week. Only one made the news because it helped the agreed upon media narrative.
Oregon. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.
Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.
Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.
China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.
The man that attacked the midnight showing of Batman didn’t attack just any theater. There were like ten to choose from. He didn’t attack the closest. It wasn’t about biggest or smallest. He attacked the one that was posted NO GUNS ALLOWED.
There were four mass killing attempts this week. Only one made the news because it helped the agreed upon media narrative.
Oregon. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.
Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.
Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.
China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.
This is a good argument against gun free zones, but a poor one for universal untrained access to guns.
UT: Shooter killed by a COP (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.)
OR: Shooter "confronted by a permit holder" (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.) Shooter (NOT permit holder) shot himself.
TX: Shooter killed by a COP (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.)
CT: Shooter commits suicide after arrival of COPS (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun users.)
China: This PERFECTLY illustrates why neither the pro NOR anti-gun lunatic fringe dictate the debate, because BOTH sides selectively use it to "prove" them right.
Radical pro-gun people: Chinese nutjob stabbed 22 schoolkids despite a total gun ban, therefore gun bans are useless.
Radical anti-gun people: Chinese nutjob stabbed 22 schoolkids but all survived thanks to a total gun ban, therefore gun bans are foolproof.
Rational people: Chinas gun ban prevented any fatalities but ALSO prevented sane, law-abiding and trained teachers/on-site cops aborting the attack.
It SHOULD be obvious that neither universally allowing NOR banning guns is ideal. And it is—to everyone not convinced one or the other is the "only solution."
If you present a few, I'll review those few, I don't give a fuck about them until then. If your counters are like the two you offered, don't waste your breath, the one didn't even make sense and the other amounted to "yes? And?" because you said 2+2=4 like it was a profound rebuttal, 'guns more dangerous than knives' is probably about the damn most redundant thing ever brought up in gun control, and you said it as though pro and anti alike should go 'Oh, holy shit! Never thought of that before.'
So feel free to present them as you find them, they mean nothing to me until I see them, but if the caliber isn't better I wouldn't bother.
So feel free to present them as you find them, they mean nothing to me until I see them, but if the caliber isn't better I wouldn't bother.
Your response both mirros and explains my reaction to Correias article: His fellow pro-gun radicals act like IT is "a profound rebuttal" because they already agreed with him. The rest of us remain unimpressed, because Correias article is only "convincing" to those ALREADY convinced his arguments are valid.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably
28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM
- 971 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM
- 407 Views
I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM
- 769 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year
28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM
- 547 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM*
28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM
- 271 Views
See my response to Novo.
28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM
- 638 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies.
28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM
- 592 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head.
28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM
- 723 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM*
29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM
- 326 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim.
29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM
- 611 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed...
29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM
- 512 Views
... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go:
05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM
- 573 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing.
31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM
- 582 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 05:23:44 PM
- 651 Views
Never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, nor shoot anything you do not mean to kill
28/12/2012 06:13:20 PM
- 611 Views
Still losing the gun debate and it's driving you a little crazy isn't it!
28/12/2012 06:40:51 PM
- 483 Views
Gallup: 58% want more gun control; Ipsos: 70% want more gun control, 90% want background checks.
28/12/2012 10:29:50 PM
- 630 Views
..and 100% want to win the lottery, but it isn't going to happen.
05/01/2013 02:17:50 PM
- 664 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...Actually, modern military weapons are constructed to wound
29/12/2012 08:43:49 PM
- 720 Views
Yeah, uh, no. Not until you do some serious background checks on teachers.
29/12/2012 01:00:20 AM
- 659 Views
GOP estimates of teacher competence have increased to the point of giving them concealed guns.
29/12/2012 02:36:08 AM
- 750 Views
You know the GOP is unlikely to object to background check on teachers, the unions might
29/12/2012 02:56:06 AM
- 613 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now"
07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM
- 622 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true
07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM
- 651 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle
07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM
- 574 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral
07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM
- 615 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho
07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM
- 667 Views
Data is data my friend. Please feel free to present your own data if you would like. *NM*
28/12/2012 05:49:09 PM
- 297 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney?
28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM
- 674 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM
- 288 Views
The goddamn frigging election. *NM*
28/12/2012 07:13:04 PM
- 293 Views
Oh, was the NRA running for something? Good grief, was a ridiculous reach. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:07:56 PM
- 297 Views
No, but it shows Gallup polls are horseshit. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:48:12 PM
- 287 Views
No it doesn't, it only shows that Romney was more awful of a candidate than Obama was. *NM*
28/12/2012 09:14:00 PM
- 302 Views
Not according to Gallup, just most US voters; Gallup DOES say 58% of the US wants more gun control.
28/12/2012 10:22:19 PM
- 786 Views
Yes. Most of us aren't against guns per se; we're against the inane concepts of gun "shows"
29/12/2012 01:06:50 AM
- 525 Views
Exactly, crazy libs like Joel want to get rid of all guns, but normal Americans.....
29/12/2012 01:36:00 AM
- 583 Views
Too bad the radical fringe on both sides drowns us both out so well.
29/12/2012 02:25:31 AM
- 679 Views
Previous polling failures by Gallup are evidence for the claim that Gallup polls are flawed.
29/12/2012 01:05:08 AM
- 681 Views
Gallup was Romney +1 with +/- 4% on Election Day.....turned out Obama +3.
29/12/2012 01:33:45 AM
- 522 Views
So what I don't understand about this whole teachers with gun thing
30/12/2012 12:42:05 AM
- 661 Views
It would strictly be voluntary
30/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
- 639 Views
You seriously don't think a linebacker can take a gun off a 5' teacher?He can just punch her.
30/12/2012 09:45:05 AM
- 618 Views
He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers
30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM
- 716 Views
Leveling that playing field is much of the point of guns.
05/01/2013 05:43:47 PM
- 665 Views
You aren't familiar with guns if you think that a large male can't disarm a woman who has one.
07/01/2013 10:14:21 AM
- 629 Views
Well Paul Ali Slater didn't, disarming is risky, and he seems familiar enough with them to me *NM*
07/01/2013 01:25:28 PM
- 325 Views