None of that prohibits regulation, only outright bans.
Joel Send a noteboard - 05/01/2013 05:25:56 PM
According to the syllabus prepared by the U.S. Supreme Court Reporter of Decisions, in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, the Supreme Court held:
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542 , nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252 , refutes the individual-rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174 , does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=heller&url=/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
Joel: Yeah, that's right, basically everything that I have been trying to explain to you all along, but you haven't been listening.
(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542 , nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252 , refutes the individual-rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174 , does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=heller&url=/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
Joel: Yeah, that's right, basically everything that I have been trying to explain to you all along, but you haven't been listening.
Section (f) is typical Scalia "logic:" The Cruikshank and Presser rulings both explicitly limited the Second Amendment, specifically, by saying it applied only to federal, NOT state government. Both are better arguments against Incorporating the Bill of Rights on states (a concept both rulings predate) than against gun control. The Miller ruling held the National Firearms Act regulations do NOT violate the Second Amendment nor the states reserved powers, and are therefore constitutional. That last is enough to establish the Second Amendment allows federal gun regulations, and the SCOTUS majoritys reliance on and affirmation of it in Heller enough to establish that view has not changed.
Regarding Heller specifically, the SCOTUS struck down DCs "Regulation" because it amounted to a BAN, prohibiting handguns as such, and requiring other small arms be kept disassembled and/or trigger-locked, effectively prohibiting their timely use. The SCOTUS did NOT reject ALL regulation, only bans, and only for weapons in common use; DCs assault weapons ban remains in effect even after Heller. Incidentally, McDonald v. Chicago is FAR more relevant than Heller to anyone residing outside the District of Columbia, since Heller only applies to federal enclaves, not states.
So the federal government cannot ban guns; via Incorporation of the Bill of Rights, neither can states (McDonald v. Chicago.) Either or both can and do regulate them, and a growing majority of voters demand both do so to a greater degree.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably
28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM
- 973 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM
- 407 Views
I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM
- 771 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year
28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM
- 548 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM*
28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM
- 271 Views
See my response to Novo.
28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM
- 639 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies.
28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM
- 594 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head.
28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM
- 724 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM*
29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM
- 326 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim.
29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM
- 613 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed...
29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM
- 514 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing.
31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM
- 582 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 05:23:44 PM
- 651 Views
Never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, nor shoot anything you do not mean to kill
28/12/2012 06:13:20 PM
- 612 Views
Still losing the gun debate and it's driving you a little crazy isn't it!
28/12/2012 06:40:51 PM
- 485 Views
Gallup: 58% want more gun control; Ipsos: 70% want more gun control, 90% want background checks.
28/12/2012 10:29:50 PM
- 632 Views
..and 100% want to win the lottery, but it isn't going to happen.
05/01/2013 02:17:50 PM
- 665 Views
None of that prohibits regulation, only outright bans.
05/01/2013 05:25:56 PM
- 630 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...Actually, modern military weapons are constructed to wound
29/12/2012 08:43:49 PM
- 721 Views
Yeah, uh, no. Not until you do some serious background checks on teachers.
29/12/2012 01:00:20 AM
- 660 Views
GOP estimates of teacher competence have increased to the point of giving them concealed guns.
29/12/2012 02:36:08 AM
- 751 Views
You know the GOP is unlikely to object to background check on teachers, the unions might
29/12/2012 02:56:06 AM
- 614 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now"
07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM
- 624 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true
07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM
- 651 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle
07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM
- 575 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral
07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM
- 616 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho
07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM
- 667 Views
Data is data my friend. Please feel free to present your own data if you would like. *NM*
28/12/2012 05:49:09 PM
- 297 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney?
28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM
- 676 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM
- 288 Views
The goddamn frigging election. *NM*
28/12/2012 07:13:04 PM
- 293 Views
Oh, was the NRA running for something? Good grief, was a ridiculous reach. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:07:56 PM
- 297 Views
No, but it shows Gallup polls are horseshit. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:48:12 PM
- 287 Views
No it doesn't, it only shows that Romney was more awful of a candidate than Obama was. *NM*
28/12/2012 09:14:00 PM
- 302 Views
Not according to Gallup, just most US voters; Gallup DOES say 58% of the US wants more gun control.
28/12/2012 10:22:19 PM
- 787 Views
Yes. Most of us aren't against guns per se; we're against the inane concepts of gun "shows"
29/12/2012 01:06:50 AM
- 526 Views
Exactly, crazy libs like Joel want to get rid of all guns, but normal Americans.....
29/12/2012 01:36:00 AM
- 585 Views
Too bad the radical fringe on both sides drowns us both out so well.
29/12/2012 02:25:31 AM
- 681 Views
Previous polling failures by Gallup are evidence for the claim that Gallup polls are flawed.
29/12/2012 01:05:08 AM
- 681 Views
Gallup was Romney +1 with +/- 4% on Election Day.....turned out Obama +3.
29/12/2012 01:33:45 AM
- 523 Views
So what I don't understand about this whole teachers with gun thing
30/12/2012 12:42:05 AM
- 662 Views
It would strictly be voluntary
30/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
- 640 Views
You seriously don't think a linebacker can take a gun off a 5' teacher?He can just punch her.
30/12/2012 09:45:05 AM
- 618 Views
He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers
30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM
- 716 Views
Leveling that playing field is much of the point of guns.
05/01/2013 05:43:47 PM
- 666 Views
You aren't familiar with guns if you think that a large male can't disarm a woman who has one.
07/01/2013 10:14:21 AM
- 630 Views
Well Paul Ali Slater didn't, disarming is risky, and he seems familiar enough with them to me *NM*
07/01/2013 01:25:28 PM
- 325 Views