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The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on? snoopcester Send a noteboard - 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM
Where does he say ADDITIONAL cops are needed? He said cops at schools, in any number, cannot prevent school shootings if diverted FROM schools.


I never claimed he said otherwise, did I?

With respect, all I can suggest is reading what the officer said rather than what one WISHES he had said. Frankly, I do not see how you can read a cop at Columbine saying armed cops AT (not NEAR) the school would have prevented the shootings to mean just the opposite. :confused:


With all due respect, Joel, I did read what he said. Perhaps you need to read what the report and I actually said and not what you think want to read?
He was guarding a group of children from the school - arguing that he would have stopped it happening if only he'd been in the right place at the right time is a nonsense argument, because his job isn't to just protect one child in on location.
His comments read to me like someone trying to make himself feel better about failing at something he was unlikely to ever succeed at, he doesn't offer a well thought out analysis here no matter how much you want it to be.

No, but I have always considered sending cops to schools to prevent truancy and smoking an appalling waste of public servants and tax money. A handful of students sneaking off campus to smoke face little risk of being shot by someone who goes TO campus to shoot large collections of students. Granted, we are not dealing with rational minds here, but I cannot imagine anyone going through the woods behind a school hoping to find large numbers of people to shoot when they are guaranteed such numbers WITHIN the school.

They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.
This hardly sounds as if the shooters would have randomly wandering through woods near the school but a group of kids who went to the same spot at the same time every day.

It is presumptuous to think a cop trained to prevent mass shootings and stationed at a school for that purpose would expect a mass shooting? Does fulfilling their job description surprise anyone else? :confused: If heavily armed gunmen are confronted with someone trained and armed to stop them, I will bet on the guy with the training and expectation rather than the nutter who just stopped by the gunshop on his way there.


Sorry Joel, you seem to have trouble understanding what I've said, again. You are very good at reading what you want to argue against though, so kudos there.
Schools are busy environment with people constantly coming in and out of them carrying all sorts of packages and in the US a fraction of 1% suffer armed attacks each year or even each decade (century in fact). Someone coming in with an assault rifle looking for the armed guard is obviously going to have a good chance of getting the drop on an armed guard who has seen 100s of people come past him every day year after year - the simple fact is that humans settle into routine very quickly, let alone after years of the routine.

Then again, I cannot recall any mass shootings anywhere trained and armed cops were present; they seem to prefer defenseless victims. The closest thing I can recall to a mass shooting where people were trained and armed was the Ft. Hood shooting, but since guns were (inexplicably) prohibited at the military base none of the training did any of the unarmed soldiers any good. The first trained and armed people on the scene PROMPTLY stopped the shooter, but before they arrived he had already killed 13 people and wounded more than 20 others.


There were armed police on the base - much like an armed policeman at a high school, they aren't able to be everywhere at once.

Also "since guns were (inexplicably) prohibited at the military base". Really?
I can't be bothered to go look but I'm willing to bet there is an explanation
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
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the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1210 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 729 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 762 Views
OK... - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 726 Views
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The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 626 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 714 Views
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Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 635 Views
If it's shown to work - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 722 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 610 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 757 Views
A fuller account of Gardner - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 820 Views
Nice link. - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 610 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 589 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM 597 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school - 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM 618 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on? - 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM 645 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 666 Views
What is public safety worth to you? - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 586 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 525 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 531 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 659 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 721 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 644 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 576 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 697 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 584 Views
[citation needed] - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 581 Views
Fair enough - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 938 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 680 Views
People die from all sort of causes - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 644 Views
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Do bombs require certification? - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 871 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 664 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 625 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 638 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 560 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 590 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 581 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 896 Views
Dicks and stones - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 773 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 517 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 522 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 597 Views

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