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As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside) HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM
...once they revealed themselves to the shooters. several students were still shot dead even after these guards engaged the shooters, and the guards did not stop the shooting in any way whatsoever. and as you point out, this was well before we militarized -- er, placed armed police in front of -- our school buildings as a rule rather than an exception. having a guard is not going to change anything other than potentially add another casualty to the next school shooting.


The armed guard did not stop it cold, but he GREATLY reduced the casualties even though when the attack began he was on his lunch hour, on the opposite side of the school, and followed the "wait for back-up" procedures that have since been abandoned as less effective than the current immediate assault doctrine.

http://www.examiner.com/article/fact-check-columbine-high-s-armed-guard-saved-student-lives?cid=rss

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/122412-638251-armed-school-guard-at-columbine-saved-lives.htm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/columbine-armed-guards-schools-students-safe-article-1.1225796
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the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics moondog - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1276 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. Joel - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 795 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head beetnemesis - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 823 Views
OK... Joel - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 798 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine. HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM 615 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea random thoughts - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 638 Views
The effectiveness issue aside TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 685 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside Joel - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 779 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 740 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. Joel - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 699 Views
If it's shown to work TheCrownless - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 783 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present. Joel - 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM 706 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... moondog - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 671 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) Joel - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 818 Views
you should try harder moondog - 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM 838 Views
"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM 786 Views
he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started moondog - 23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM 792 Views
No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there? Joel - 23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM 630 Views
A fuller account of Gardner snoopcester - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 885 Views
Nice link. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 669 Views
Re: Nice link. moondog - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 648 Views
Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.) Joel - 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM 658 Views
Re: Nice link. snoopcester - 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM 650 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school Joel - 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM 683 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on? snoopcester - 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM 715 Views
As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside) HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM 790 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US moondog - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 731 Views
What is public safety worth to you? Joel - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 653 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. moondog - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 587 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 586 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect moondog - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 728 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 778 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject moondog - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 719 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 630 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country moondog - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 755 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic Isaac - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 642 Views
[citation needed] moondog - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 634 Views
Fair enough Isaac - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 1010 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion. Joel - 26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM 624 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. random thoughts - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 740 Views
Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics Novo - 22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM 826 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools. Joel - 22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM 656 Views
This entire post is completely irrelevant. Tom - 22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM 775 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities. Joel - 22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM 722 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane moondog - 23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM 738 Views
also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around moondog - 23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM 685 Views
People die from all sort of causes Dark Knight - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 715 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? Joel - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 846 Views
Do bombs require certification? Dark Knight - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 935 Views
No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions. Joel - 22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM 611 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks moondog - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 733 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. Stephen - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 684 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 707 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. moondog - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 622 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 664 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference moondog - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 634 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 953 Views
Dicks and stones Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 837 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 576 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days moondog - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 577 Views
cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take moondog - 23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM 681 Views
But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM 299 Views
Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962 Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM 639 Views
except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't. moondog - 23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM 679 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide Isaac - 23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM 626 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws moondog - 24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM 602 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation Isaac - 24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM 717 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation moondog - 25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM 680 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation Isaac - 25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM 655 Views
Double *NM* Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM 355 Views
Hat trick, never got that before *NM* Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:56:08 AM 316 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns" Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM 739 Views
I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM* Burr - 23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM 369 Views
there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook moondog - 23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM 675 Views
I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM 728 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. Orange - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 660 Views
IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM* HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM 347 Views
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