Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner’s patrol car. They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.
So the problem was he as looking after the wrong group of students - perhaps a problem that could occur when guarding any school that is sizeable, in particular if it is spread over a large area?
That was my impression, yes, particularly after he said armed cops at schools would prevent more Columbines, but only if assigned that duty exclusively.
did i make you a copy of the "sub pop 200" album? if not, do you remember that song from terry lee hale which has the verse that goes:
"Little men carry guns and walk so big.
They say they're not afraid, just prepared.
But you know they want to use it, they want to drop the heat
They want to play the hero and talk a life that's cheap
Hanging onto nothing, more than they can keep
Do you think that they would dare less? Think they'd lose their sleep?
No, they never do...."
point being, it's incredibly easy in hindsight to say "oh yeah, that would've totally worked if only...." i'm going to go back to the fort hood shooting here and say: if the largest US military base in the world cannot contain a single crazy gunman, what hope does a single guard have at a public school, especially when he is going to be required to do more than just look for gunmen shooting at kids?
As soon as two civilian cops showed up with handguns, the Ft. Hood shooter wounded one of them with several shots before the other one shot him five times and cuffed him. Fort Hood is not an argument more guns cannot prevent gun violence, but that prohibiting them even to a military bases screened and trained soldiers makes even military bases easy prey for a single crazed gunman. It is also an argument to deny guns to mentally ill people behaving violently.
Having people trained with guns does no good if those people are 1) prohibited from having guns or 2) sent elsewhere before the shooting starts. It is not unreasonable to say, "that totally would have worked IF ANYONE HAD BOTHERED TRYING IT." Tell ya what: Since we are currently having mass shootings at the rate of about one every two months, why not try it and SEE if it works? What is the worst that could happen?
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Slightly better than chocolate.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM
1208 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response.
- 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM
727 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head
- 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM
760 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine.
- 26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM
553 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea
- 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM
576 Views
The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM
624 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM
714 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably
- 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM
671 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification.
- 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM
634 Views
If it's shown to work
- 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM
720 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present.
- 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM
620 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon...
- 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM
608 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.)
- 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM
755 Views
you should try harder
- 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM
774 Views
"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there.
- 23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM
706 Views
he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started
- 23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM
717 Views
No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there?
- 23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM
573 Views
A fuller account of Gardner
- 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM
818 Views
Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM
608 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM
587 Views
Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
- 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
589 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM
597 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school
- 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM
616 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on?
- 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM
644 Views
As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside)
- 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM
716 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US
- 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM
666 Views
What is public safety worth to you?
- 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM
586 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it.
- 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM
523 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings.
- 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM
529 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect
- 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM
659 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence.
- 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM
721 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject
- 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM
644 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead.
- 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM
575 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country
- 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM
695 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion.
- 26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM
548 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous.
- 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM
680 Views
Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM
754 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools.
- 22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM
593 Views
This entire post is completely irrelevant.
- 22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM
704 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities.
- 22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM
649 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane
- 23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM
682 Views
also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around
- 23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM
625 Views
People die from all sort of causes
- 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM
643 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not?
- 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM
779 Views
Do bombs require certification?
- 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM
870 Views
No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions.
- 22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM
544 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks
- 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM
663 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances.
- 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM
625 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected
- 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM
637 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something..
- 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM
560 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention
- 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM
589 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference
- 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM
580 Views
Dicks and stones
- 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM
771 Views
cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take
- 23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM
610 Views
But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM
279 Views
Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962
- 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM
580 Views
except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't.
- 23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM
605 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide
- 23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM
565 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws
- 24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM
544 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM
661 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM
624 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM
593 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns"
- 23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM
676 Views
I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM*
- 23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM
344 Views
there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook
- 23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM
610 Views
I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality
- 27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM
666 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns.
- 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM
595 Views
IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM
328 Views