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you should try harder moondog Send a noteboard - 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM
Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:

Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff’s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me."

The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but didn't stop him.


if that does not convince you otherwise, explain how a single gunman could take out 15 at fort hood. the largest US military base in the world, which i can only assume is crawling with plenty of armed and well-trained shooters, and they still had trouble containing a single person with a gun. the suggestion from the NRA that this tactic is going to work with such evidence to the contrary is basically them trying to blame everyone but themselves for the culture we've created that allows these massacres to continue to happen.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

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the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics moondog - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1208 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. Joel - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 727 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head beetnemesis - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 760 Views
OK... Joel - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 724 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine. HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM 553 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea random thoughts - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 576 Views
The effectiveness issue aside TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 624 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside Joel - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 714 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably TheCrownless - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 671 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. Joel - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 634 Views
If it's shown to work TheCrownless - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 720 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present. Joel - 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM 620 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... moondog - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 608 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) Joel - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 756 Views
you should try harder moondog - 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM 775 Views
"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM 706 Views
he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started moondog - 23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM 717 Views
No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there? Joel - 23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM 573 Views
A fuller account of Gardner snoopcester - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 818 Views
Nice link. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 608 Views
Re: Nice link. moondog - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 587 Views
Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.) Joel - 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM 589 Views
Re: Nice link. snoopcester - 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM 597 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school Joel - 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM 616 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on? snoopcester - 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM 644 Views
As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside) HyogaRott - 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM 716 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US moondog - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 666 Views
What is public safety worth to you? Joel - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 586 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. moondog - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 523 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 529 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect moondog - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 659 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. Joel - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 721 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject moondog - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 644 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. Joel - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 575 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country moondog - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 695 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic Isaac - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 582 Views
[citation needed] moondog - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 581 Views
Fair enough Isaac - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 938 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion. Joel - 26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM 548 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. random thoughts - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 680 Views
Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics Novo - 22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM 754 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools. Joel - 22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM 593 Views
This entire post is completely irrelevant. Tom - 22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM 705 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities. Joel - 22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM 649 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane moondog - 23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM 682 Views
also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around moondog - 23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM 625 Views
People die from all sort of causes Dark Knight - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 644 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? Joel - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 779 Views
Do bombs require certification? Dark Knight - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 870 Views
No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions. Joel - 22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM 544 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks moondog - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 663 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. Stephen - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 625 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 637 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. moondog - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 560 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 589 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference moondog - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 580 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 896 Views
Dicks and stones Dark Knight - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 771 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 516 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days moondog - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 520 Views
cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take moondog - 23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM 610 Views
But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM 279 Views
Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962 Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM 580 Views
except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't. moondog - 23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM 605 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide Isaac - 23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM 565 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws moondog - 24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM 544 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation Isaac - 24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM 661 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation moondog - 25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM 624 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation Isaac - 25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM 594 Views
Double *NM* Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM 332 Views
Hat trick, never got that before *NM* Isaac - 23/12/2012 11:56:08 AM 292 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns" Anonymous2000 - 23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM 676 Views
I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM* Burr - 23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM 344 Views
there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook moondog - 23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM 610 Views
I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM 666 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. Orange - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 595 Views
IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM* HyogaRott - 27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM 328 Views
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