A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
Isaac Send a noteboard - 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
Also, when something doesn't sound right to me, and I ask for a citation, it is absolutely not my job to find it or shrug and say 'You're right', it's the person who says it is. I don't know who the hell taught you to argue but FYI if you ever cite a law with serious debaters and someone asks "Hey, I think that sounds strange, what law is that? What's the text?" and you say "Go look it up." you'll get the stink eye, because on any claim, especially law, the person citing it is the one who expected to prove its true, not the person disputing it. If you claim Canadian law requires a snorkel in a public pool, I am damn well within my rights to say "Which law is that? What's the specific text?" and expect you to prove it or withdraw it.
This is basic stuff man, and with law doubly true because the snorkeling law might well say, "The manager of the public pool is permitted to require such equipment... ... as deemed reasonable at the time, e.g. snorkel." And in the ... ... it says "be used by an employee engaging in repairs or looking for lost items if he has decided not to drain the pool, and may require any non-employee assisting to don the same" and the whole thing changes.
But all of this is irrelevant because neither I or Moondog actually care about Aussie law, if he's wrong (he's not, I did look it up, and there are caveats too) it wouldn't matter, he'd just say "I wish the law here was X" and I'd reply, "I think that's morally wrong" and we'd continue. You're running on tangents again, same as your weird digression into my preferred choice of weapons to clear a room. You want to debate with me, then you either accept that claims, especially legal ones, get backed up on request with proper citation (which means the actual legal code) or you don't present the claim. Law rarely reads flat out the way casual readers, journalists, or wiki editors think it does and I certainly do not take 'trust me' as sufficient.
This is basic stuff man, and with law doubly true because the snorkeling law might well say, "The manager of the public pool is permitted to require such equipment... ... as deemed reasonable at the time, e.g. snorkel." And in the ... ... it says "be used by an employee engaging in repairs or looking for lost items if he has decided not to drain the pool, and may require any non-employee assisting to don the same" and the whole thing changes.
But all of this is irrelevant because neither I or Moondog actually care about Aussie law, if he's wrong (he's not, I did look it up, and there are caveats too) it wouldn't matter, he'd just say "I wish the law here was X" and I'd reply, "I think that's morally wrong" and we'd continue. You're running on tangents again, same as your weird digression into my preferred choice of weapons to clear a room. You want to debate with me, then you either accept that claims, especially legal ones, get backed up on request with proper citation (which means the actual legal code) or you don't present the claim. Law rarely reads flat out the way casual readers, journalists, or wiki editors think it does and I certainly do not take 'trust me' as sufficient.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them?
- 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM
1745 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer
- 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM
1169 Views
You're actually not right on that one
- 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM
1110 Views
That wasn't the point I was making
- 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM
1037 Views
You should probably clarify it then
- 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM
1212 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM
1383 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM*
- 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM
612 Views
I think
- 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM
1038 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle'
- 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM
1039 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith
- 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM
1108 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM
1034 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM
1070 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM
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Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM
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I thought I was being perfectly clear.
- 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM
1067 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too.
- 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM
1076 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se
- 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM
1021 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense
- 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM
1089 Views
He is right about Australia
- 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM
1037 Views
No kidding
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
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- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
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If you knew all that
- 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM
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Because I used wiki of course
- 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
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He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon"
- 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM
997 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so...
- 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM
1097 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have
- 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM
1037 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM
1061 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM
1143 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
- 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
1033 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM
717 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
- 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
1040 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets.
- 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM
1112 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns?
- 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM
1265 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM
637 Views
Activist judges should not make law.
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1071 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1071 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM
608 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing.
- 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM
1042 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution
- 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM
1021 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows.
- 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM
1109 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states
- 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM
1038 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly?
- 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM
1012 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again.
- 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM
990 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment."
- 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
1030 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything.
- 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM
953 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM
1125 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable
- 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM
1067 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one.
- 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM
990 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know
- 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM
972 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto
- 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM
1147 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy"
- 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
1249 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system."
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1124 Views
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1124 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now
- 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM
1202 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right?
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
955 Views
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
955 Views
Well I can't say it surprises
- 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM
933 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
973 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM
1029 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive
- 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM
1014 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be.
- 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM
1163 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places.
- 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM
1059 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail.
- 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM
1155 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license.
- 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM
997 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license
- 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM
1006 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses.
- 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM
1014 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug*
- 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM
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Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM
1101 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM
883 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000.
- 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM
1047 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election...
- 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM
1014 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM
596 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout
- 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM
1117 Views
typical NRA bullshit response
- 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM
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typical Moondog bullshit response
- 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM
1050 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
940 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
940 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use.
- 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM
996 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate.
- 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM
1050 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee.
- 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM
915 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks.
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1009 Views
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1009 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote
- 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM
1057 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM
1241 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM
997 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed
- 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM
1178 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM
637 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification.
- 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM
995 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM
556 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution.
- 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM
1095 Views
Yes you are.
- 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM
922 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar.
- 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM
1067 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to
- 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM
1118 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn."
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
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- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
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I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it.
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
592 Views
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
592 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance.
- 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM
985 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text.
- 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM
1305 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively"
- 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM
1054 Views
You are wrong.
- 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM
1048 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM
1013 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns
- 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM
1056 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user
- 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM
1073 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping?
- 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM
992 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep
- 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM
1119 Views
She was asleep with him in the house.
- 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM
1082 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one...
- 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM
1000 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd.
- 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM
1006 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time...
- 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM
986 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers.
- 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM
992 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM
598 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...."
- 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM
991 Views
Your point being?
- 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM
972 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him.
- 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM
1060 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other
- 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM
1080 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is.
- 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM
1008 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people.
- 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM
923 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant?
- 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM
976 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM
610 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine.
- 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM
1007 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered.
- 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM
1041 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed
- 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM
969 Views
You make no sense.
- 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM
1026 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point.
- 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM
1106 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought
- 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM
1036 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM*
- 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM
696 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
- 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
1130 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said
- 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM
1111 Views
