I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
Joel Send a noteboard - 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
other countries have had no problem controlling the owning of guns without outright banning specific features. i would like to see us go to an australian model where "self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon. it's a pipe dream as of now, but maybe this can be the last mass school shooting if we're lucky enough to get tough on gun laws instead of more lax.
The Second Amendment does not require a valid EXCUSE to have any weapon; it requires a valid excuse to DENY one. Failure to pass a mental health/criminal background check, receive adequate training and certification of same, or license and register the weapon all qualify, IMHO, but the guns inherent lethality does not, not unless we also ban swords, knives, bats and every other lethal weapon. You always said you did not need a gun because of your mag light, but it could easily shatter a skull or rupture an organ: Should you therefore be prohibited from owning it? Are its self-defense applications insufficient cause to exempt you from that ban?
All that aside, and whether we like it or not, Mao was correct to say political power comes out of the barrel of a gun, and gun rights advocates are correct to say the entire Bill of Rights ultimately rests on the Second Amendment. Again I note there can be little doubt what the Framers intended by the Second Amendment given that the American Revolution began at Lexington and Concord, when the British Army tried to confiscate guns the militias used to resist government tyranny, and the militias met them in battle to prevent it. If the Founding Fathers did not intend the public to have access to military weaponry they would have remained loyal British subjects.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
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Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 21/12/2012 at 11:14:30 PM
When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them?
- 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM
1870 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer
- 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM
1269 Views
You're actually not right on that one
- 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM
1233 Views
That wasn't the point I was making
- 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM
1141 Views
You should probably clarify it then
- 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM
1321 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM
1494 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM*
- 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM
699 Views
I think
- 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM
1140 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle'
- 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM
1168 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith
- 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM
1225 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM
1138 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM
1189 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM
1233 Views
Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM
1326 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear.
- 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM
1180 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too.
- 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM
1177 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se
- 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM
1135 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense
- 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM
1202 Views
He is right about Australia
- 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM
1133 Views
No kidding
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
1116 Views
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
1116 Views
If you knew all that
- 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM
1199 Views
Because I used wiki of course
- 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
1306 Views
He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon"
- 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM
1124 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so...
- 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM
1216 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have
- 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM
1151 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM
1173 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM
1259 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
- 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
1154 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM
770 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
- 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
1140 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets.
- 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM
1227 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns?
- 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM
1392 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM
688 Views
Activist judges should not make law.
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1180 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1180 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM
664 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing.
- 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM
1167 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution
- 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM
1137 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows.
- 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM
1220 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states
- 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM
1153 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly?
- 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM
1132 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again.
- 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM
1105 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment."
- 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
1151 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything.
- 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM
1037 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM
1237 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable
- 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM
1172 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one.
- 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM
1125 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know
- 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM
1094 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto
- 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM
1297 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy"
- 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
1380 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system."
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1238 Views
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1238 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now
- 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM
1316 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right?
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
1078 Views
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
1078 Views
Well I can't say it surprises
- 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM
1043 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
1079 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM
1130 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive
- 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM
1125 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be.
- 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM
1287 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places.
- 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM
1177 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail.
- 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM
1262 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license.
- 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM
1103 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license
- 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM
1112 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses.
- 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM
1126 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug*
- 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM
1282 Views
Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM
1245 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM
989 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000.
- 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM
1154 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election...
- 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM
1127 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM
636 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout
- 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM
1216 Views
typical NRA bullshit response
- 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM
1150 Views
typical Moondog bullshit response
- 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM
1147 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
1043 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
1043 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use.
- 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM
1087 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate.
- 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM
1156 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee.
- 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM
1025 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks.
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1135 Views
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1135 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote
- 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM
1164 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM
1360 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM
1116 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed
- 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM
1293 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM
687 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification.
- 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM
1138 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM
610 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution.
- 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM
1196 Views
Yes you are.
- 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM
1025 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar.
- 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM
1178 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to
- 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM
1249 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn."
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1455 Views
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1455 Views
I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it.
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
632 Views
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
632 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance.
- 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM
1091 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text.
- 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM
1405 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively"
- 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM
1174 Views
You are wrong.
- 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM
1138 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM
1124 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns
- 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM
1161 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user
- 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM
1165 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping?
- 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM
1113 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep
- 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM
1229 Views
She was asleep with him in the house.
- 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM
1174 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one...
- 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM
1119 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd.
- 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM
1110 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time...
- 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM
1119 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers.
- 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM
1108 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM
657 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...."
- 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM
1105 Views
Your point being?
- 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM
1082 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him.
- 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM
1157 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other
- 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM
1177 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is.
- 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM
1125 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people.
- 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM
1052 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant?
- 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM
1084 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM
655 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine.
- 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM
1109 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered.
- 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM
1148 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed
- 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM
1075 Views
You make no sense.
- 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM
1134 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point.
- 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM
1215 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought
- 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM
1146 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM*
- 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM
765 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
- 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
1254 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said
- 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM
1220 Views
