i would like to see us go to an australian model where "self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon.
He said own, not use one you already own.
You can't get a gun licence on the grounds of self defence in Australia. If you have a licence for some other reason there are sometimes grounds for it to be used in self defence, however you can't own a gun on the grounds of self defence.
Burden of proof is on the prosecution in Australia to prove the 'shoot-ee' wasn't engaged in harmful intent, as it should be of course, in all things.
You are right that Australia has some of the most restrictive gun laws around though (on paper, on first inspection), no argument there, but it still bases around the idea that someone can take any reasonable measure to defend themselves or family or property. Their laws are a bit bizarre IMHO but acquiring a gun is not hard, and once you own one, self-defense laws are fairly normal.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them?
- 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM
1539 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer
- 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM
993 Views
You're actually not right on that one
- 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM
922 Views
That wasn't the point I was making
- 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM
866 Views
You should probably clarify it then
- 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM
1023 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM
1177 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM*
- 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM
530 Views
I think
- 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM
853 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle'
- 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM
860 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith
- 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM
908 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM
849 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM
877 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM
936 Views
Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM
1068 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear.
- 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM
872 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too.
- 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM
875 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se
- 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM
831 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense
- 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM
893 Views
He is right about Australia
- 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM
869 Views
No kidding 
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
856 Views
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
856 Views
If you knew all that
- 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM
880 Views
Because I used wiki of course
- 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
930 Views
He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon"
- 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM
802 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so...
- 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM
929 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have
- 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM
844 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM
889 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM
907 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
- 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
856 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM
639 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
- 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
864 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets.
- 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM
904 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns?
- 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM
1069 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM
559 Views
Activist judges should not make law. 
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
880 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
880 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM
526 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing.
- 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM
872 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution
- 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM
842 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows.
- 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM
909 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states
- 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM
872 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly?
- 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM
836 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again.
- 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM
783 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment."
- 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
873 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything.
- 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM
764 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM
943 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable
- 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM
881 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one.
- 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM
795 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know
- 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM
792 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto
- 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM
910 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy"
- 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
1069 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system." 
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
953 Views
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
953 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now
- 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM
1018 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right?
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
794 Views
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
794 Views
Well I can't say it surprises
- 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM
736 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
796 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM
854 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive
- 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM
825 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be.
- 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM
971 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places.
- 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM
891 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail.
- 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM
972 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license.
- 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM
799 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license
- 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM
808 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses.
- 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM
854 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug*
- 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM
958 Views
Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM
931 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM
728 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000.
- 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM
883 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election...
- 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM
840 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM
524 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout
- 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM
932 Views
typical NRA bullshit response
- 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM
871 Views
typical Moondog bullshit response
- 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM
879 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it 
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
764 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
764 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use.
- 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM
827 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate.
- 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM
877 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee.
- 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM
737 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks.
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
826 Views
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
826 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote
- 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM
865 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM
1058 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM
809 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed
- 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM
987 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM
561 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification.
- 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM
807 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM
495 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution.
- 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM
914 Views
Yes you are.
- 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM
716 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar.
- 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM
878 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to
- 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM
942 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn."
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1173 Views
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1173 Views
I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it. 
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
522 Views
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
522 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance.
- 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM
809 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text.
- 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM
1123 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively"
- 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM
877 Views
You are wrong.
- 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM
891 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM
812 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns
- 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM
908 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user
- 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM
900 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping?
- 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM
840 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep
- 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM
915 Views
She was asleep with him in the house.
- 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM
882 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one...
- 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM
821 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd.
- 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM
797 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time...
- 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM
783 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers.
- 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM
798 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM
500 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...."
- 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM
791 Views
Your point being?
- 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM
781 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him.
- 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM
901 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other
- 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM
908 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is.
- 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM
825 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people.
- 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM
737 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant?
- 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM
794 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM
542 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine.
- 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM
834 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered.
- 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM
845 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed
- 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM
775 Views
You make no sense.
- 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM
851 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point.
- 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM
928 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought
- 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM
840 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM*
- 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM
594 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
- 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
923 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said
- 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM
923 Views