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so you did. sorry about that! moondog Send a noteboard - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM
In fact, if you read my initial response, that's what I suggested.

The only problem is that privately-held companies wouldn't do that, but at the public company level it is a great idea. It gives them a stake in the company's profit (upside potential) and allows them to vote at shareholder meetings, but because they can vote however they want to they don't HAVE to end up all voting the same way. Convince your money investors that something is a good thing and get enough worker votes as well, and you can get that pay increase. But if all the workers vote against it, well, you don't get it.


i think it would take a HUGE change in culture, especially since it would mean curtailing CEO and other executive pay and bonuses. on the other hand, since the dot-com bust there is still a lot of hesitation for workers to accept stock in lieu of proper compensation. it would certainly provide an alternative to union membership, but it will require a lot more work than all the interested parties are willing to put in to make it happen, imho.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1435 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. Tom - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 764 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 711 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 751 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 745 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 691 Views
Dude, that's insane. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 743 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 635 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 691 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less moondog - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 787 Views
The good and the bad of unions: Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 864 Views
Double post. Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 944 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM 690 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management moondog - 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM 715 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... beetnemesis - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 696 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* Narg - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 429 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? Cannoli - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 776 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only moondog - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 666 Views
Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 888 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. Narg - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 788 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 809 Views
one point i need to address here: moondog - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 632 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 584 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: beetnemesis - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 839 Views
it's great? moondog - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 719 Views
Pissed off people.... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 637 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? moondog - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 761 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 616 Views
but that's my point exactly moondog - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 683 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* Isaac - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 359 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 659 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 649 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer moondog - 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM 631 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand. everynametaken - 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM 812 Views
So let me get this straight. Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 719 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 671 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD moondog - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 703 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... Tom - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 673 Views
That would be an interesting study... Jeordam - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 652 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... moondog - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 607 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 701 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 674 Views
How is that wrong? Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 634 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions moondog - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 659 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. Tom - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 650 Views
A brilliant argument... Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 726 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience Orange - 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM 768 Views
Your hypothetical doesn't stand up in the real world, however. Tom - 14/12/2012 02:46:23 PM 707 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems moondog - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 645 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics Tom - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 579 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 657 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. Tom - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 634 Views
i'll take you one further.... moondog - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 590 Views
I have suggested that before Tom - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 634 Views
so you did. sorry about that! moondog - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 612 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) Jeordam - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 644 Views
funny thing about that..... moondog - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 580 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 663 Views
What do you want me to say? Jeordam - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 771 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 344 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM 688 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place? Dannymac - 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM 611 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose. HyogaRott - 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM 672 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise? Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM 994 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. callandor1000 - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 708 Views
This must be a trying time for you. Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 659 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 307 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit Amyrlin - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 809 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 631 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM* heartbreak - 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM 395 Views
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