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Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog Send a noteboard - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM
The UAW (those who are a part of it) represents a very large majority of individuals within the state. And as you noted, they are probably only second to the state government itself. All that being said, I am still finding it difficult to see how its a bad thing that it is now a "right to work" state.

The state is overly dependent on the auto industry. Well now that a company could move into the state, without being constrained by the Union environment, don't you think it would be a good thing?

Let's say I want to open a new manufacturing site. I need a place with good logistics potential & a good workforce. Logistics can be worked, as evidenced by the auto industry that was there. And the workforce is potentially very good because of the experience of those who were there.

Now that there isn't a union issue to deal with, I can get the very best.

Sometimes its impossible to re-build the house after its damaged. It may just be best to level it to the ground and start over.

~Jeordam


where is it written in michigan's constitution that all new jobs can *only* be union shops? what they passed essentially boils down to "unions cannot collect dues at union shops". there was nothing stopping anyone from opening a non-union shop in michigan as long as it was not an auto factory.

in fact, there are plenty of non-union employers, but they don't make up enough diversity to make a difference. i've even worked at a non-union factory in wisconsin, so i know for a fact that there are industrial non-union jobs available in states without "right to work" laws. it is still not the unions which are holding back michigan's economy, and i still don't see how having "right to work" makes it any better for them in the short *or* long term.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1357 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. Tom - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 698 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 640 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 681 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 677 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 615 Views
Dude, that's insane. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 678 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 564 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 618 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less moondog - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 717 Views
The good and the bad of unions: Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 793 Views
Double post. Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 852 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM 627 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management moondog - 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM 648 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... beetnemesis - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 614 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* Narg - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 404 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? Cannoli - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 712 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only moondog - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 599 Views
Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 822 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. Narg - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 720 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 742 Views
one point i need to address here: moondog - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 568 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 524 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: beetnemesis - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 773 Views
it's great? moondog - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 652 Views
Pissed off people.... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 568 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? moondog - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 694 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 556 Views
but that's my point exactly moondog - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 610 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* Isaac - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 326 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 591 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 583 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer moondog - 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM 569 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand. everynametaken - 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM 750 Views
So let me get this straight. Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 654 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 600 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD moondog - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 641 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... Tom - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 607 Views
That would be an interesting study... Jeordam - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 589 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... moondog - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 553 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 637 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 604 Views
How is that wrong? Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 570 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions moondog - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 586 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. Tom - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 583 Views
A brilliant argument... Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 657 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience Orange - 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM 697 Views
Your hypothetical doesn't stand up in the real world, however. Tom - 14/12/2012 02:46:23 PM 646 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems moondog - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 581 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics Tom - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 517 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 594 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. Tom - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 565 Views
i'll take you one further.... moondog - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 522 Views
I have suggested that before Tom - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 574 Views
so you did. sorry about that! moondog - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 540 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) Jeordam - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 576 Views
funny thing about that..... moondog - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 516 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 593 Views
What do you want me to say? Jeordam - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 695 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 315 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM 609 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place? Dannymac - 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM 543 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose. HyogaRott - 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM 603 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise? Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM 934 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. callandor1000 - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 638 Views
This must be a trying time for you. Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 591 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 280 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit Amyrlin - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 733 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 558 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM* heartbreak - 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM 365 Views
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