WTF does "I don’t care what their intent was. I care what it was that they intended" mean?
Joel Send a noteboard - 11/12/2012 09:03:23 PM
"I don't care about x, I care about x"? Was that supposed to be a joke?
That is the whole problem with asserting the Constitution to mean only what the Framers understood it to mean: Even if we grant that, the precise meaning of many clauses is intensely and widely debated. Scalia can say, "When you read Chaucer, you try to figure out what the words meant when they were put down on paper. It’s the same thing with the law,” but "figuring out what the words meant when they were put down on paper" is a judgement call that varies with the individuals making it, their culture and their era. Scalias implication his far right view of the text is indisputable, or indelibly and unambiguously written in stone OR parchment, is absurd.
Of course, it is not even THAT simple; a literally limited First Amendment would not protect your right to gush about Scalia online (since that is an electronic transmission, not speech or publishing,) and a literally unlimited Second Amendment WOULD ensure my absolute right to keep and bear ICBMs.
“They want society to do things their way now and forever, coast to coast.” That is Scalias argument FOR letting him define the Constitutions every penstroke in excruciating detail, now and forever; sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. He quickly gives a good example of why that would be so foolishly dangerous: “My constitution is a very flexible one. There’s nothing in it about abortion and since there isn’t, it’s up to the citizens.” Scalias Constitution grants women no Fourth Amendment right to security against the search needed to prove an illegal abortion, nor a Fifth Amendment right against thereby incriminating themselves.
That is not so shocking though; Scalias stated "understanding" of the Constitution is that "With the right structure, you will preserve freedom even without a bill of rights." The Constitutions authors disagreed: THAT IS WHY THEY ADDED THE BILL OF RIGHTS! That, and the fact the states all refused to ratify it until they did.
The Constitution is obviously not a blank check. It has specific words with specific meanings, but if all the latter were as unambigously cut and dried as Scalia makes them sound he would be out of a job. That they are not makes me WISH he were. Scalia is arguably the most activist justice on the SCOTUS; it is only debatable because, although Kagans tenure has just begun, she will likely be every bit as bad (just in the other direction.) Partisan activism does not become impartial jurisprudence nor sage wisdom just because one happens to share the activists partisanship. I wish Scalia no ill will, but only hope he soon retires and lets a more able justice take his place. His infamous skill at inverting the meaning of words is more visibly failing each day. He has become a caricature of his once intimidating self.
That is the whole problem with asserting the Constitution to mean only what the Framers understood it to mean: Even if we grant that, the precise meaning of many clauses is intensely and widely debated. Scalia can say, "When you read Chaucer, you try to figure out what the words meant when they were put down on paper. It’s the same thing with the law,” but "figuring out what the words meant when they were put down on paper" is a judgement call that varies with the individuals making it, their culture and their era. Scalias implication his far right view of the text is indisputable, or indelibly and unambiguously written in stone OR parchment, is absurd.
Of course, it is not even THAT simple; a literally limited First Amendment would not protect your right to gush about Scalia online (since that is an electronic transmission, not speech or publishing,) and a literally unlimited Second Amendment WOULD ensure my absolute right to keep and bear ICBMs.
“They want society to do things their way now and forever, coast to coast.” That is Scalias argument FOR letting him define the Constitutions every penstroke in excruciating detail, now and forever; sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. He quickly gives a good example of why that would be so foolishly dangerous: “My constitution is a very flexible one. There’s nothing in it about abortion and since there isn’t, it’s up to the citizens.” Scalias Constitution grants women no Fourth Amendment right to security against the search needed to prove an illegal abortion, nor a Fifth Amendment right against thereby incriminating themselves.
That is not so shocking though; Scalias stated "understanding" of the Constitution is that "With the right structure, you will preserve freedom even without a bill of rights." The Constitutions authors disagreed: THAT IS WHY THEY ADDED THE BILL OF RIGHTS! That, and the fact the states all refused to ratify it until they did.
The Constitution is obviously not a blank check. It has specific words with specific meanings, but if all the latter were as unambigously cut and dried as Scalia makes them sound he would be out of a job. That they are not makes me WISH he were. Scalia is arguably the most activist justice on the SCOTUS; it is only debatable because, although Kagans tenure has just begun, she will likely be every bit as bad (just in the other direction.) Partisan activism does not become impartial jurisprudence nor sage wisdom just because one happens to share the activists partisanship. I wish Scalia no ill will, but only hope he soon retires and lets a more able justice take his place. His infamous skill at inverting the meaning of words is more visibly failing each day. He has become a caricature of his once intimidating self.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/12/2012 at 09:10:19 PM
SCOTUS Justice Antonin Scalia is brilliant, just brilliant -
11/12/2012 05:09:19 AM
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WTF does "I don’t care what their intent was. I care what it was that they intended" mean?
11/12/2012 09:03:23 PM
- 555 Views
Yeah I read that twice to see if that was right *NM*
11/12/2012 09:36:55 PM
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Part of me pities Scalias decline, because he could once nimbly and convincly argue black is white.
12/12/2012 07:09:56 PM
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Re: your post.
12/12/2012 07:18:18 PM
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More like disapeared in a puff of Florida's own law that they were trying to ignore.
12/12/2012 08:13:13 PM
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Florida state law does not and did not prohibit statewide recounts.
16/12/2012 01:45:52 PM
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Spoken like a true lib.....I could have written that for you.
12/12/2012 05:08:42 AM
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The people of WA and CO just decided pot should be legal; think Scalia agrees?
12/12/2012 07:25:11 PM
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FreshMints decided that the almond aroma of radioactive arsenic is very pleasing...
12/12/2012 08:09:39 PM
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I am aware of Scalias "logic," and his rejection of it about a year later with Robamacare.
16/12/2012 01:51:16 PM
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But you didn't.
13/12/2012 04:06:05 PM
- 531 Views
Yup, yup; the Constitution is all about majority rule WITH minority rights.
16/12/2012 01:56:15 PM
- 464 Views
Your whole rant lacks any logic
12/12/2012 03:46:34 PM
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His comment references the authors (NOT words) intent in both negative and affirmative.
12/12/2012 06:45:02 PM
- 520 Views
I was stumped by his phrasing as well
12/12/2012 09:31:53 PM
- 426 Views
But we must go by his words and his understanding of their meaning, without interpretation.
16/12/2012 01:40:23 PM
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The SCotUS is no place for raging homophobes.
13/12/2012 04:48:30 AM
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Sorry you don't like it, but what he said is true.
13/12/2012 03:11:42 PM
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Lol. Homophobia is synonymous w/ homonegativism. It's not meant to convey a true phobia *NM*
13/12/2012 03:28:01 PM
- 333 Views
Only for people who don't know actually know how to read and understand words. Nice spin though. *NM*
13/12/2012 05:54:29 PM
- 213 Views
So then what we need is a definition of homophobia?
13/12/2012 09:56:15 PM
- 601 Views
Re: So then what we need is a definition of homophobia?
13/12/2012 11:16:46 PM
- 548 Views
-phobe : Greek -phobos, adj. derivative of phóbos fear, panic
13/12/2012 11:32:14 PM
- 562 Views
Do you have a similar problem with "xenophobia?" Because it's exactly the same thing.
14/12/2012 01:30:24 AM
- 487 Views
xenophobia is the fear of the alien... WTF are you trying to say?
14/12/2012 03:03:09 AM
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No. You are patently, objectively incorrect.
14/12/2012 08:39:00 AM
- 479 Views
Don't believe me, ask a Greek it is after all THEIR word. I gave you some extra capitals, happy now? *NM*
14/12/2012 02:56:09 PM
- 336 Views
stop being obtuse
14/12/2012 05:10:41 PM
- 532 Views
Hmmmm lets see, people misuse a word, perverting its meaning...
14/12/2012 07:29:11 PM
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If everyone "misuses" a word, that becomes an acceptable use of it.
14/12/2012 10:14:23 PM
- 518 Views
Re: If everyone "misuses" a word, that becomes an acceptable use of it.
15/12/2012 12:12:18 AM
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and if everryone jumps off a cliff to splatter on the rocks I should just be a good little lemming.
15/12/2012 07:13:27 AM
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actually, you have already chosen stupid by pretending the word means something it does not
15/12/2012 03:34:35 PM
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA, my friend John would strenuously disagree.
16/12/2012 06:50:19 AM
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and you are a small-minded buffoon who can't come up with real arguments so you resort to nitpicking
17/12/2012 11:48:25 PM
- 498 Views