*SNIP*
Pretty simple.....
Pretty simple.....
There is absolutely nothing simple about it.
First - prosecutors do not take plea bargains on cases where they think they can win in court. They take them on cases where they think there is a good chance they may lose in court in order to get something rather than nothing.
Charges that are dropped first are usually the ones that are hardest/impossible to prove. The entire court system is such that it has become standard practice to 'throw the book' at someone in hopes of making at least one charge stick, often by bargaining down to the one charge they MIGHT have a chance of winning.
A Grand Jury indictment is merely the prosecutor's case. It is not proof. The testimony at it cannot be cross examined. It is purely one side of the story in an intentionally confrontational system.
If you want to take the legal system accepts as 'fact' in the case as what 'really' happened, then all charges that were dropped in the case do not exist. They were dropped, unproven. The person is INNOCENT of those charges.
The only charge that was admitted to was having sex with someone underage. Period. That particular event IS fact. She was underage. Sex took place. No one disputes those facts. But ONLY those facts are considered proven by the courts. Not the alcohol or forcing or saying no or drugs, nothing.
Just the fact that it happened. Period.
Anything else is a claim which may, or may not have any validity to it and is somewhat compromised by the fact that it wasn't pursued by the prosecution - which means that it was pretty sketchy at least as regards legal proof.
So, not simple. Not simple at all.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.
Old Egyptian Blessing
Old Egyptian Blessing
/History/Politics/I'm not sure: A commentary on the Roman Polanski arrest
29/09/2009 10:15:12 AM
- 1263 Views
There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:53:41 AM
- 467 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 11:57:18 AM
- 555 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:09:27 PM
- 330 Views
Re: There's some seriously twisted logic in this
29/09/2009 12:15:54 PM
- 420 Views
For thousands of years 13yos have been having sex with much older males.
29/09/2009 02:46:27 PM
- 374 Views
Lots of things have been going on for thousands of years.
29/09/2009 03:35:06 PM
- 330 Views
Well on the flip side
29/09/2009 03:49:35 PM
- 425 Views
if you were talking "consensual", i'd probably at least grudgingly agree
29/09/2009 04:07:08 PM
- 428 Views
Problem is that we don't know
29/09/2009 04:46:15 PM
- 427 Views
he said/she said/lawyer said
29/09/2009 05:01:41 PM
- 481 Views
Yep
29/09/2009 05:28:16 PM
- 448 Views
I was not under the impression he did not know she was a minor
29/09/2009 05:50:38 PM
- 456 Views
Well, Angelica Huston (who was there that night) didn't think she looked 'like a minor'
29/09/2009 06:17:15 PM
- 474 Views
It was a photo shoot for a film why WOULD she look like a minor??
29/09/2009 06:27:00 PM
- 483 Views
Sorry - no it wasn't for a film at all
29/09/2009 06:39:14 PM
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I believe at some point it wasn mentioned to be connected to a film
29/09/2009 06:42:25 PM
- 258 Views
I've never seen anything to support that
29/09/2009 07:01:56 PM
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even if the paperwork didn't show it
29/09/2009 07:06:02 PM
- 470 Views
Possibly
29/09/2009 07:35:33 PM
- 463 Views
and i'm saying that if it was under contest
29/09/2009 07:38:24 PM
- 419 Views
here is a photo of her taken that same year.
29/09/2009 08:10:21 PM
- 479 Views
Seen that one as part of my research on this
29/09/2009 08:22:33 PM
- 501 Views
I think it very telling that you want to take this line of when Polanski doesn't
29/09/2009 08:36:47 PM
- 351 Views
Really? Who says?
29/09/2009 08:42:38 PM
- 404 Views
I can't prove it wasn't aliens using mind control rays that forced him to do it
29/09/2009 08:57:10 PM
- 318 Views
There is one thing I would like to say.
29/09/2009 09:03:06 PM
- 324 Views
Absolutely unacceptable behavior for an administrator, Avendesora.
30/09/2009 10:44:32 PM
- 405 Views
actually, it was an honest mistake. I accidentally clicked on "edit" instead of "reply".
01/10/2009 06:25:48 PM
- 277 Views
he could have had a trial and chose not to
29/09/2009 05:41:11 PM
- 433 Views
Yes, he could have
29/09/2009 05:56:05 PM
- 398 Views
so he fled the country to spare her the humilation of a trial?
29/09/2009 08:11:59 PM
- 421 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 08:28:58 PM
- 285 Views
no it isn't but you seem to have trouble understanding he drugged and rapped a child
30/09/2009 09:24:53 PM
- 448 Views
You seem to have trouble understanding that an accusation isn't proof
30/09/2009 11:04:35 PM
- 447 Views
The coward fled the country before anything could be proven
01/10/2009 06:25:27 AM
- 437 Views
You really don't get it do you?
01/10/2009 04:20:36 PM
- 231 Views
I don't get it??????
01/10/2009 05:22:51 PM
- 314 Views
Yeah - you don't and it's a good thing you're not part of the legal system
01/10/2009 05:32:57 PM
- 402 Views
For thousands of years gays have been persecuted and treated as abhorrent perverts.
02/10/2009 02:57:47 AM
- 451 Views
And a big fuck you to you too.
05/10/2009 03:08:09 PM
- 272 Views
He's just a troll, as he's shown in many threads. *NM*
05/10/2009 03:19:14 PM
- 234 Views
Yes, it's not like I have a valid point or anything. *NM*
05/10/2009 07:16:13 PM
- 253 Views
Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
05/10/2009 07:46:18 PM
- 275 Views
Well, I guess you'll have to fulfill your role here and pass sentence...
06/10/2009 09:19:34 PM
- 438 Views
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not ok to point out the hypocritical holes in your argument? My bad.
05/10/2009 07:15:33 PM
- 251 Views
I've been following this with some interest
29/09/2009 03:28:36 PM
- 286 Views
That was my impression as well.
29/09/2009 03:38:48 PM
- 272 Views
I agree with many of your points, but on some the facts seem to say something else.
29/09/2009 04:13:09 PM
- 443 Views
Problem of course is that those are not 'facts'
29/09/2009 04:58:28 PM
- 456 Views
first you demand fact before judgement then you make a judgement on your opinion?
29/09/2009 05:04:59 PM
- 397 Views
because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 04:17:06 PM
- 433 Views
Re: because she doesn't have any excuse to belly up either
29/09/2009 05:17:57 PM
- 357 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 05:30:25 PM
- 377 Views
I would have to agree with you there, actually
29/09/2009 05:47:13 PM
- 503 Views
Re: I would have to agree with your first point, but not the second
29/09/2009 05:47:40 PM
- 476 Views
There is no way in hell he did not know she was underage.
29/09/2009 05:55:37 PM
- 431 Views
Not necessarily true at all
29/09/2009 06:32:18 PM
- 375 Views
Somehow, i heavily doubt the fact she was NOT 18 would never have come to light
29/09/2009 06:40:20 PM
- 441 Views
You may be right, I don't know.
29/09/2009 06:58:45 PM
- 449 Views
so you agree he is guilty to the allegation he pleaded guilty to of sex with a minor?
29/09/2009 07:09:07 PM
- 355 Views
There was never any doubt of that
29/09/2009 07:46:43 PM
- 341 Views
Yeah, I agree about the vigilante part and the extreme reactions...
29/09/2009 07:58:18 PM
- 467 Views
I think I'm reading that article more critically than you are.
29/09/2009 08:37:23 PM
- 408 Views
Or you've already made up your mind, while I'm basing mine on what I read.
29/09/2009 08:46:56 PM
- 478 Views
An article that has a lot of additional detail...
29/09/2009 07:18:29 PM
- 459 Views
I wish i could put a nice big star next to this.
29/09/2009 07:29:38 PM
- 368 Views
Umm - why?
29/09/2009 08:04:29 PM
- 419 Views
Yes, well, online newspaper archives don't tend to date back very far...
29/09/2009 08:14:52 PM
- 444 Views
Oh, and if you want to read the op-ed she wrote...
29/09/2009 08:20:06 PM
- 382 Views
Camilla - he drugged and raped a 13-year old.....what else do you need to know? *NM*
29/09/2009 06:19:19 PM
- 259 Views
I don't know that. Neither do you. Which is part of it. *NM*
29/09/2009 06:20:22 PM
- 252 Views
Yes we do.....
29/09/2009 06:30:46 PM
- 415 Views
No, we don't.
29/09/2009 06:48:35 PM
- 368 Views
if these "Facts" were false
29/09/2009 07:02:50 PM
- 397 Views
That's extremely naive
29/09/2009 08:07:15 PM
- 286 Views
i fail to see how this is naive
29/09/2009 08:35:59 PM
- 440 Views
The naive part
29/09/2009 08:49:18 PM
- 448 Views
I'm not assuming anyone (not just her personal testimony) was telling the truth
29/09/2009 08:56:52 PM
- 470 Views
I think that I'm just more cynical than you are
29/09/2009 09:12:12 PM
- 408 Views
So because i'm not cynical about the court system and have a different train of logic
29/09/2009 09:25:53 PM
- 424 Views
Not necessarily wrong
29/09/2009 09:43:33 PM
- 412 Views
Uhm, his bargain wasn't 40-odd days in evaulation
29/09/2009 09:51:22 PM
- 234 Views
Not what I read, but this whole thing is so messy...
29/09/2009 10:25:59 PM
- 336 Views
I don't remember which article it was from
29/09/2009 10:32:32 PM
- 212 Views
One thing that was clear
29/09/2009 11:08:43 PM
- 440 Views
Ah I didn't catch that
29/09/2009 11:15:06 PM
- 389 Views
Could you source that?
29/09/2009 11:18:46 PM
- 418 Views
it's one of the articles that's been linked
29/09/2009 11:59:02 PM
- 378 Views
CNN has it the way I described, but I don't know how good their info is. *NM*
30/09/2009 11:05:45 PM
- 109 Views
Yes, we do.....drugs & rape of a 13-year old
29/09/2009 07:10:02 PM
- 383 Views
you do know that just because you repeat something it doesn't instantly become true? *NM*
29/09/2009 07:11:03 PM
- 109 Views
Wow - I guess every allegation ever made by a prosecutor is true
29/09/2009 08:09:43 PM
- 287 Views
I guess you believe every criminal who says "I didn't do it".....
29/09/2009 08:18:29 PM
- 365 Views
Nope
29/09/2009 09:14:02 PM
- 279 Views
He admitted it.
29/09/2009 10:45:43 PM
- 419 Views
You don't get it do you?
29/09/2009 11:15:27 PM
- 388 Views
Seriously, are you related to Roman the Rapist?
30/09/2009 01:11:44 AM
- 389 Views
I want to go on record as saying: I really dislike agreeing with you
30/09/2009 05:03:24 AM
- 470 Views
Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 12:23:53 AM
- 374 Views
Re: Oh, now Amy's accusing me of being a pedophile, that's just funny
01/10/2009 05:55:46 AM
- 414 Views
Honestly Amy, you know nothing whatsoever about my life or why I do things
01/10/2009 04:03:38 PM
- 402 Views
I think you're getting way out of line here, Amy. *NM*
01/10/2009 04:07:59 PM
- 229 Views
I agree, and already said the same once. It appears that was deleted. *NM*
01/10/2009 05:15:07 PM
- 268 Views
I think for the 1st time ever i'm actually stunned by the comments on this board.
29/09/2009 07:14:18 PM
- 331 Views
Oh but he didn't KNOW
29/09/2009 07:17:55 PM
- 299 Views
Ignorance doesn't have to be proven in court
29/09/2009 08:11:31 PM
- 251 Views
no you have back asswards
29/09/2009 08:14:36 PM
- 283 Views
You're talking ethics and then switch to law
29/09/2009 09:17:02 PM
- 253 Views
yes the law can be stupid but not so stupid that you can use the
29/09/2009 10:32:49 PM
- 294 Views
Oh it's EASILY that stupid and even stupider
29/09/2009 10:58:33 PM
- 419 Views
If the girl has to call and ask her mommy if she can stay late you should ask her age
30/09/2009 04:04:33 PM
- 272 Views
He knew her age. The photo-shoot was specifically looking at young girls.
30/09/2009 04:42:01 PM
- 389 Views
I think he's ignoring such trivial details as "that was the specific age being photographed" *NM*
30/09/2009 04:56:10 PM
- 235 Views
Of course he knew he age
30/09/2009 05:01:19 PM
- 384 Views
Obviously - because you say so right?
30/09/2009 11:25:18 PM
- 240 Views
Wow, way to make up 'facts'
30/09/2009 11:23:13 PM
- 464 Views
Way to go for a straw man
29/09/2009 07:45:44 PM
- 421 Views
No one has excused him. But there is no point any longer in going after him.
29/09/2009 08:15:42 PM
- 495 Views
Agreed - I can't believe people are defending this d-bag.....amazing! *NM*
29/09/2009 08:25:05 PM
- 236 Views
well
29/09/2009 08:34:56 PM
- 396 Views
I'm all for the gray and considerin both sides.
29/09/2009 08:45:50 PM
- 305 Views
Ben Franklin once said
29/09/2009 09:30:16 PM
- 450 Views
*snort*
29/09/2009 10:02:13 PM
- 418 Views
I'd say you need to spend more time around lawyers
29/09/2009 10:40:05 PM
- 357 Views
Exactly Nossy
29/09/2009 09:20:14 PM
- 484 Views
I've decided I really don't care about this either way at all.
29/09/2009 08:38:14 PM
- 341 Views
It has an effect on good cinema *NM*
29/09/2009 08:52:58 PM
- 157 Views
There's a lot of misinformation flying around here.
29/09/2009 11:22:29 PM
- 433 Views
That would be more convincing if you didn't have incorrect information yourself.
29/09/2009 11:58:40 PM
- 254 Views
I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:07:43 AM
- 421 Views
Re: I just worked that out.
30/09/2009 12:28:13 AM
- 386 Views
In my opinion...
30/09/2009 04:57:44 PM
- 371 Views
Can I just say...
30/09/2009 05:54:47 PM
- 391 Views
The state is also a vicitm
30/09/2009 06:17:22 PM
- 385 Views
Hardly, in this case
30/09/2009 11:57:48 PM
- 269 Views
He drugged and raped her.....please feel free to pass this along..... *NM*
01/10/2009 12:23:49 AM
- 261 Views
you know your arguments would have more merit if you had a clue what your were talking about
01/10/2009 06:24:35 AM
- 245 Views
You should know what you are talking about before you post
01/10/2009 04:18:50 PM
- 449 Views
OK go learn something and then come back
01/10/2009 05:15:45 PM
- 420 Views
I note that you ignore the fact that I just proved you wrong...
01/10/2009 05:27:01 PM
- 355 Views
no you just mistated some crap that I ignored *sigh*
01/10/2009 06:30:03 PM
- 255 Views
Well - there's another accusation of pedophilia for being skeptical of a borked law case
01/10/2009 06:52:08 PM
- 239 Views
The girl and mother requested to cut a deal, so the 13-year old wouldn't have to testify.....
01/10/2009 04:28:49 PM
- 226 Views
This may help some of the argument, but sadly not much
01/10/2009 02:06:22 AM
- 400 Views
It's not just that he admitted to it in the plea bargain.
01/10/2009 03:10:37 AM
- 451 Views
Well this was the first proof I found that he actually did know her age around the court date
01/10/2009 04:16:19 PM
- 418 Views
Yes, looking at him very strangely.....he's jumping the shark big-time on this one!
01/10/2009 04:31:43 PM
- 264 Views
Good news - French government drops support for director Roman Polanski
01/10/2009 04:46:42 PM
- 406 Views
Not only that, but the DA that said he coached the Judge is now claiming he lied to the documentary
01/10/2009 07:26:30 PM
- 397 Views
Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 06:59:36 PM
- 528 Views
Re: Well, unless I find some new facts to post - I think I'm done with this thread
01/10/2009 08:41:01 PM
- 298 Views
I agree the attacks on you personally were not warranted and were out of line.
03/10/2009 03:02:03 AM
- 440 Views