That limitation is still prejudicial and somewhat arbitrary.
Joel Send a noteboard - 22/10/2012 04:25:25 PM
We traditionally say "rights" but marriage is, from a legal perspective, a privileged relationship in which the partners enjoy certain legal preferences that are not granted outside marriage. I think this is the key point that must be stressed, however, because the straw man argument that gay marriage will lead to polygamy, letting people marry animals, etc., is a flawed one. If we say that we have created a special legal status between two individuals, then same-sex couples have a claim that the way the privilege is set up is discriminatory. This is an equal protection claim. Imagine if marriage were defined as "the legal union between one white man and one white woman" and you see the crux of the argument. The "rights" only come in when we look at the Constitutional right to equal protection under the law.
If, however, the privilege is set up as one for only two people, then people who say they have a polygamous relationship are not in a position to claim that they do not enjoy equal protection, because the relationship has been defined as a two-person relationship. After all, if we expand to three, we could expand to 100, or 10,000. So, consequently, we can create a privilege for two and exclude three (though we could just as easily allow it if we wanted to, without being obligated to on a Constitutional basis), but I don't think we can create a privilege for two and then set conditions on who the two people can be.
If, however, the privilege is set up as one for only two people, then people who say they have a polygamous relationship are not in a position to claim that they do not enjoy equal protection, because the relationship has been defined as a two-person relationship. After all, if we expand to three, we could expand to 100, or 10,000. So, consequently, we can create a privilege for two and exclude three (though we could just as easily allow it if we wanted to, without being obligated to on a Constitutional basis), but I don't think we can create a privilege for two and then set conditions on who the two people can be.
Hence Cannoli contends gay marriage bans are qualitatively different than miscegenation bans because the latter "arbitrarily exclud[e] groups due to invalid criteria." Obviously the arbitrariness there is his, but what makes the "monogamy" criterion any less arbitrary/more valid than the "heterosexual" or "anti-miscegenation" ones?
I understand it poses practical problems for spouse benefits from private entities, but the Equal Protection Clause has less force on them than on government. Nothing prevents employers/insurers/any private entity restricting spouse benefits to an individual rather than any and all spouses. Joint inheritance is hardly novel; competing divergent interests frequently complicate it, but the legal system manages to endure.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
For all you supporters of Gay Marriage: What about polygamy?
20/10/2012 12:02:06 AM
- 1370 Views
Legal rights.
20/10/2012 12:14:10 AM
- 777 Views
should be legal, would be nice for poly people. should include polygyny and polyandry. *NM*
20/10/2012 03:29:05 AM
- 376 Views
Government needs to stop legislating morality. So yes *NM*
20/10/2012 03:36:37 AM
- 368 Views
That's a huge chunk of what government does.
20/10/2012 04:35:45 PM
- 707 Views
That's not what I'm saying
21/10/2012 03:21:08 AM
- 722 Views
So you're opposed to abortion and gun control then? Welcome aboard!
21/10/2012 06:14:14 AM
- 670 Views
Why do you keep talking about gay marriage and polygamy in the same sentence..
20/10/2012 03:58:26 AM
- 749 Views
Get a grip. Your response is just what I tried to avoid.
20/10/2012 04:33:40 AM
- 666 Views
The more fool you.
21/10/2012 05:55:30 AM
- 760 Views
This, and legal recognition of it, is precisely why marriage has become an Equal Protection issue.
22/10/2012 03:40:01 PM
- 694 Views
Because they are both violations of the paradigm of genuine marriage. Like it or not.
21/10/2012 05:49:32 AM
- 650 Views
I have no problem with polygamy being legal, but marriage is a privilege and can be limited to two.
20/10/2012 04:16:08 AM
- 756 Views
The only problem with that is that it was established with a heterosexist assumption
21/10/2012 06:33:32 AM
- 718 Views
From a legal perspective, all of your arguments are irrelevant
21/10/2012 03:12:39 PM
- 822 Views
This really is blatantly obvious, but still it might bear repeating...
21/10/2012 04:43:13 PM
- 715 Views
That limitation is still prejudicial and somewhat arbitrary.
22/10/2012 04:25:25 PM
- 911 Views
Yes, but only if its equal. Multi-people relationships should be more acceptable by society.
20/10/2012 05:15:24 AM
- 768 Views
"Polygamy" is the all-inclusive term; whether or not he meant it, he said it.
22/10/2012 04:31:09 PM
- 657 Views
I support autogamy in addition to various forms of exogenic relationships
20/10/2012 05:49:07 AM
- 691 Views
Have you seen the Glee episode where Sue Sylvester conducts a marriage of herself to herself? *NM*
20/10/2012 09:50:32 AM
- 366 Views
I am fine with it if all existing parties to the marriage consent to each addition.
20/10/2012 10:10:19 AM
- 764 Views
The case for polygamy has really weakened rather than strenghtened, you might say.
20/10/2012 03:53:34 PM
- 866 Views
I have no problem with it, but as Amy says, it's not really relevant. *NM*
20/10/2012 05:40:50 PM
- 394 Views
Legalize polygamy and create a familymaking process, but don't cover polygamy under marriage.
20/10/2012 10:14:58 PM
- 685 Views
The state shouldn't even recognize marriage beyond name changes anyway
21/10/2012 03:52:40 AM
- 734 Views
Indeed
21/10/2012 06:04:41 AM
- 791 Views
I don't give a damn what you call it. That's your business.
21/10/2012 06:17:40 AM
- 1067 Views
And so?
21/10/2012 07:05:08 AM
- 700 Views
Re: And so?
21/10/2012 04:10:19 PM
- 866 Views
So can we call it garriage, give the same legal effect and call it good? *NM*
22/10/2012 03:28:33 AM
- 372 Views
According to your argument we could afford gay couples the same legal privileges...
22/10/2012 03:20:17 AM
- 630 Views
"...separate educational facilities are inherently unequal."
22/10/2012 04:45:31 PM
- 691 Views
That may well be the ideal solution. And also the most ironically amusing in how it would fail.
22/10/2012 07:35:05 PM
- 659 Views
We already went there and did that in '04, and yes, it was funny as f--k.
22/10/2012 09:51:49 PM
- 609 Views
Agreed in principle, but custody/cohabitation/assets go well beyond name change.
22/10/2012 04:37:09 PM
- 667 Views
This is the sort of thing that *needs* to be about principle
23/10/2012 04:54:10 AM
- 601 Views
Parental, property and other rights need government protection, and thus government involvement.
23/10/2012 05:14:37 AM
- 648 Views
Legal contracts must be open to all consenting adults, or none.
22/10/2012 03:11:55 PM
- 747 Views
You are correct, yet your reasoning is flawed.
23/10/2012 03:20:25 PM
- 672 Views
Again, the Equal Protection Clause has far less force on private entities than on government.
23/10/2012 03:52:06 PM
- 606 Views
Much less force, yes.
23/10/2012 04:15:03 PM
- 614 Views
The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business."
23/10/2012 04:43:25 PM
- 687 Views
Re: The crux is "If it's my business, it's my business."
23/10/2012 07:15:17 PM
- 630 Views
Like you said: By referring to "all invididuals" (or, better, "persons" or "citizens.")
24/10/2012 04:14:55 PM
- 651 Views
But we know very well that it doesn't have dire commercial consequences.
25/10/2012 07:17:55 PM
- 707 Views
I have several friends who practice polyamory, if they wanted to marry I would support it. *NM*
24/10/2012 06:47:58 PM
- 339 Views