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I covered that point of view in my response. Joel Send a noteboard - 25/09/2012 03:31:38 AM
Efficiency

Regardless of the views one holds regarding which entity would be "better" for determining how charitable funds should be allocated...let's look at it from an efficiency point of view.

I don't have numbers, spreadsheets, reports or articles to back up my viewpoint, but my gut instinct says that a 3rd party Charity is going to be more efficient with its money then the government is.

Why?

Because the government, by its very definition, likes beaurocracy. It has a somewhat dramatic chain of command which it follows to get something done. The different programs and agencies are under the control of yet another person (or entity), which will undergo a leadership change every 4 to 8 years.

On the other hand, 3rd party charities, I would guess, would be more efficient with their money, because they know its strictly voluntary. No so with the government, who's going to be budgeted some money every year...and money shows up according to the law.

So if we were going to get the most "bang for our buck", wouldn't it be wise to use a 3rd party? Call me paranoid, but I'd rather choose who to give my charitable money to, then the government. They tend to support causes that I don't like, and then an election later, they will support some causes that someone else doesn't like. We, as a society, can easily agree on infrastructure, defense/federal law enforcement, public parks/monuments and such.

~Jeordam

So I will just C&P what I said there: We have the right, responsibility and dire need of far more public oversight and accountability. It is all well to say "AUDIT THE FED111" but any such audit is pointless with no more public scrutiny than the CBO, OMB or GAO get. Complaining about how ones tax money is spent without KNOWING how is as idiotic as complaining about how one is represented without voting. Participatory democracy is ultimately a redundant phrase; unless it is participatory, it is not democracy.

I will also add that government does not "like" bureaucracy; it is a necessary evil of administrating any organization—which incidentally includes private ones, and thus all charitable organizations. I have never understood the apparent conservative notion that privatizing things magically eliminates bureaucracy. Tell that to your private insurance carrier. I literally got my first gray hair dealing with a private bureaucracy that badly bungled my medical leave and short term disability insurance to the point they nearly denied any payment for thousands of dollars in medical bills, cost me my job and left me owing my employer a month of disability pay advanced on the expectation my claims would be granted.

First they needed to know my "attending physician" and condition, and it took several days effort to reach ANYONE who could answer my question: Was my "attending physician" the ER doc who put my arm back in its socket or the orthopedic surgeon his discharge orders required I see three times before returning to work (which he forbade for a week regardless.) The customer service rep insisted they only needed the surgeon, but I was unconvinced, so he finally recorded the ER doc, too, "just in case" (this was critically important later.) I dutifully went to the orthopedic surgeon and asked if I could return to work; he told me I should lift nothing heavy, and since my employer forbade employees returning to work unable to perform all essential job functions (including hauling around 50+ lb. steel trays,) I took that as "no."

For the first month off work by written order of the ER doc who put my arm back in its socket I tried almost daily to reach the insurer and find out my claim status, rarely getting more than a recording. Finally, after three of six scheduled weeks of physical therapy, my arm felt strong enough to do my job again, so I headed back to work. I did my 12 hour shift, came home, went to bed and just before I nodded off the case worker whose name I had not even be able to get called: My medical leave and short term disability claims had both been denied because I was "never taken off work."

To say I was indignant would be an understatement, and I angrily pointed out that the ER docs written discharged stated I could not go back to work until 1) at least a week later and 2) I had seen an orthopedic surgeon. The case worker was unimpressed, but told me I could appeal, which I soon did. During that two month ordeal I repeatedly tried to contact the case worker again, but to this day the first time I spoke with her was also the last. Every time I called I got a very sympathetic but totally powerless customer service rep who could not even access any of the information I sought. The best they could do was transfer me to the case worker.

I spoke with her voicemail many times. I also discussed that with more customer service reps, who said they could set up a "mandatory call back" since I evidently could not speak with my case worker any other way; company policy required mandatory call backs to be made within 48 hours. After three days silence I got to—set up another mandatory call back I never received. At one point, since I was doing all this in between 12 hour shifts, my MOTHER even decided to start calling them, but she knew how the game is played and asked for the case workers SUPERVISOR: Mandatory call back within 48 hours; we are still awaiting that call....

Along the way I went back to the orthopedic surgeon, who informed me saying I could lift nothing heavy had NOT barred me from work, because I could just do a different job than my normal one. I am not sure he every understood when I tried to tell him company policy explicitly states employees CANNOT work until/unless able to perform all essential job functions (mainly because they do not want liability issues.) The only "good" news was that I picked the right day to see him: The following day someone equally tired of watching bureaucracy try to destroy his life just for the Hell of it saved them the trouble, by flying a small plane over the interchange I had to use and into the local IRS office.

I mentioned that shortly thereafter when I finally spoke to an appeals supervisors supervisor. I also mentioned my mother retired from the TX State Attorney Generals office (without bothering to mention she is not a lawyer.) I do not know if that had any effect, but within a couple days the supervisors supervisor called back to say my claims had been granted after all because, after three months, someone had finally bothered to check their files for the copy of the ER doctors discharge that they had from the start (because I faxed it to them.) Remember, the written discharge forbidding me to work until I 1) had been off for a week and 2) saw an orthopedic surgeon? From the ER doc whose name they said at the start they did not need, and only took because I pressed the issue?

I never did speak to my caseworker save for the one time she called to say she had denied a claim that should have been almost automatically accepted. The woman I spoke with at the end seemed sincerely embarrassed none of those mandatory callbacks had been made, and a little concerned that I filed a complaint not only with the insurance carrier, but my employer (i.e. their client, who pays them monthly to cover medical and disability claims like the one they tried to refuse.) I occasionally wonder if incompetence that nearly got me fired got my case worker fired instead; I am genuinely unsure how I would feel about that given the economys current state.

What I do know, and knew before then, is that bureaucracies are far from restricted to government. The only difference is that government bureaucrats have at least some accountability to the public, whereas private ones have NONE (hence I made it clear I would be sharing tales of their incompetence with their client; I alone simply did not rate.) Efficiency? It took them three months to reverse denial of a routine claim, during which I paid for extra unnecessary doctor trips and to send them a half dozen faxes of his reports, X-rays, physical therapy reports; you name it. After all that I STILL would have lost my job and coverage of all medical bills had not I, over their demurral, insisted they take my ER doctors information at the very start, then implicitly THREATENED them at the end.

From start to finish I DID THEIR JOB FOR THEM. Tell me how much more efficient the private sector is than government bureaucracy.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant, but I always thought of stuff like that every time I heard people sing the praises of privatization over inefficient, incompetent and often corrupt government bureaucracy, as if bureaucracy is not ubiqutious in or out of government. The difference is I now have painful firsthand experience with it. I could share similar saga of my mothers experience trying to get Blue Cross to pay for a leg brace they said was only available to diabetics (which she was long ago diagnosed to be.) Even as a government employee she could not avoid private bureaucracy screwing her around: She just could not vote it out of power for the trouble.
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This message last edited by Joel on 25/09/2012 at 09:10:47 AM
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Voting. - 23/09/2012 06:43:12 AM 607 Views
Joel = Fool ; I vote every year, are you just saying random things now? *NM* - 25/09/2012 01:42:49 AM 196 Views
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Do you have a reading comprehension problem? - 25/09/2012 02:54:28 AM 513 Views
"Anyone" means "anyone;" perhaps you have a writing comprehension problem. - 25/09/2012 03:39:11 AM 497 Views
Joel = Moron - 25/09/2012 04:37:15 AM 516 Views
You could leave out the insults, you know? - 25/09/2012 08:35:12 AM 587 Views
It is an old debate, and one with many edits. - 23/09/2012 06:32:40 AM 689 Views
Re: Taxes and Charity - 23/09/2012 07:47:16 AM 597 Views
I imagine much of Romney's charitable giving is to the Mormon Church. - 23/09/2012 12:08:45 PM 554 Views
Almost all of my charitable giving goes to Mercy Corps - 23/09/2012 03:48:30 PM 525 Views
Let me see how I interpret this post... - 23/09/2012 04:56:20 PM 573 Views
huh? - 23/09/2012 06:49:52 PM 644 Views
I would argue that "our society" includes the rest of the world as well. *NM* - 26/09/2012 03:24:02 PM 216 Views
Ok - 26/09/2012 07:36:35 PM 586 Views
Is the Mormon Church not part of society? But that issue is part of why I favor taxation. *NM* - 23/09/2012 10:14:39 PM 204 Views
I'm part of society too. Does that mean I'm as worthy a recipient of money as the public purse? *NM* - 23/09/2012 10:37:31 PM 245 Views
To whatever extent that we should support charity beyond taxation, yes, you are, IMO. - 24/09/2012 03:56:31 AM 500 Views
I agree with you - 24/09/2012 11:25:14 AM 1900 Views
Charity in place of tax - 24/09/2012 12:05:03 PM 544 Views
I am very well aware of that. *NM* - 24/09/2012 01:47:06 PM 200 Views
I DISagree with both of you. - 25/09/2012 02:36:05 AM 1816 Views
Re: I DISagree with both of you. - 25/09/2012 02:26:16 PM 798 Views
At the risk of sounding like a fundamentalist... - 23/09/2012 11:05:14 PM 546 Views
Local symphonies are usually charities - 23/09/2012 11:21:07 PM 533 Views
Very well said. *NM* - 24/09/2012 06:12:23 PM 232 Views
will you count Scientology as a church? - 26/09/2012 03:26:53 PM 530 Views
Let's look at this from a different point of view.... - 24/09/2012 11:51:43 PM 475 Views
I covered that point of view in my response. - 25/09/2012 03:31:38 AM 635 Views
You need both. - 26/09/2012 03:35:41 PM 585 Views

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