President Barack Obama:
Income: $790,000
Federal taxes: $162,000
Tax rate: 20.5 percent
Charitable donations: $172,000
100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 42.3%
Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney:
Income: $13.7 million
Federal taxes: $1.94 million
Tax rate: 14.1 percent
Charitable donations: $4 million
100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 43.4%
------
So, while they may disagree on the appropriateness of the method by which income should be contributed to society (Obama through taxes, Romney through charity), they are both contributing practically the same proportion of their income.
My personal view is more in line with Obama's and Buffet's. The nation should have relatively more control over distribution of the wealth that it helps create than it does now. But even with that attitude, I don't think people are going to find much to reasonably criticize in Romney's 2011 filing. Going after him for -not- claiming charitable deductions is going to backfire if the Democratic party keeps it up. By the same token, the Republican party would be wise not to make too big a deal out of their respective charitable donations.
Income: $790,000
Federal taxes: $162,000
Tax rate: 20.5 percent
Charitable donations: $172,000
100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 42.3%
Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney:
Income: $13.7 million
Federal taxes: $1.94 million
Tax rate: 14.1 percent
Charitable donations: $4 million
100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 43.4%
------
So, while they may disagree on the appropriateness of the method by which income should be contributed to society (Obama through taxes, Romney through charity), they are both contributing practically the same proportion of their income.
My personal view is more in line with Obama's and Buffet's. The nation should have relatively more control over distribution of the wealth that it helps create than it does now. But even with that attitude, I don't think people are going to find much to reasonably criticize in Romney's 2011 filing. Going after him for -not- claiming charitable deductions is going to backfire if the Democratic party keeps it up. By the same token, the Republican party would be wise not to make too big a deal out of their respective charitable donations.
While I also generally favor national discretion on social spending, the first problem is that only federal government can exercise such discretion, and conservatives have a justified distrust of how efficiently, honestly and impartially it does so. The other problem is peoples right to decide how their own money is spent, not have its expenditure dictated, especially for things they strongly and fundamentally oppose. I counter those arguments thus:
1) We have the right, responsibility and dire need of far more public oversight and accountability. It is all well to say "AUDIT THE FED111" but any such audit is pointless with no more public scrutiny than the CBO, OMB or GAO get. Complaining about how ones tax money is spent without KNOWING how is as idiotic as complaining about how one is represented without voting. Participatory democracy is ultimately a redundant phrase; unless it is participatory, it is not democracy.
2) The price of living in society is, well, living IN society. It is no more reasonable to proclaim "I alone decide how my money is spent!" than "I alone decide where my Army is deployed!" Tax money is not any one persons money: It is the nations money, hence the tax. Each of us has a voice in how that is spent, but no more than anyone else (though that is admittedly a hard sell on K Street. ) I dislike my taxes paying for US multinationals to fire my friends and family then send their jobs to Chinese non-wage-slaves, but until/unless enough people agree to elect a Congress that will end the practice it will continue.
To the latter point I would add that we tried meeting societys needs with charity alone, and most of the elderly lived in shameful bitter poverty. That all changed in 1933; thanks to Social Security and Medicare only about 10% of Americas elderly live in poverty now. Not coincidentally, US life expectancy has risen 20 years since then. The simple fact is we cannot afford to leave national needs to charity and just hope enough people will generously contribute to cover all the unavoidable expenses.
Anyway, that is the distinction as I understand it: The contention individuals both can and should decide what social needs to fund, and will do so most effectively if allowed, vs. the contention national needs must be met with national means, with no ones duty to contribute nor right to participate ignored.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:42:23 AM
- Edit 7 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:42:23 AM
- Edit 6 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:42:00 AM
- Edit 5 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:40:03 AM
- Edit 4 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:39:34 AM
- Edit 3 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:38:57 AM
- Edit 2 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:36:26 AM
- Edit 1 by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:33:24 AM
Taxes and Charity
23/09/2012 04:57:07 AM
- 1053 Views
Proof that Burr is .....
23/09/2012 05:05:37 AM
- 502 Views
Voting.
23/09/2012 06:43:12 AM
- 607 Views
Joel = Fool ; I vote every year, are you just saying random things now? *NM*
25/09/2012 01:42:49 AM
- 196 Views
"I am proud to say that I didn't vote for anyone in 2004."-Anonymous2000
25/09/2012 01:52:00 AM
- 692 Views
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
25/09/2012 02:54:28 AM
- 513 Views
"Anyone" means "anyone;" perhaps you have a writing comprehension problem.
25/09/2012 03:39:11 AM
- 496 Views
Joel = Moron
25/09/2012 04:37:15 AM
- 516 Views
The statement was ambiguous, hence I was not the only one who read it as I did.
25/09/2012 05:19:46 AM
- 568 Views
It is an old debate, and one with many edits.
23/09/2012 06:32:40 AM
- 689 Views
I imagine much of Romney's charitable giving is to the Mormon Church.
23/09/2012 12:08:45 PM
- 554 Views
Almost all of my charitable giving goes to Mercy Corps
23/09/2012 03:48:30 PM
- 525 Views
I would argue that "our society" includes the rest of the world as well. *NM*
26/09/2012 03:24:02 PM
- 216 Views
Is the Mormon Church not part of society? But that issue is part of why I favor taxation. *NM*
23/09/2012 10:14:39 PM
- 204 Views
I'm part of society too. Does that mean I'm as worthy a recipient of money as the public purse? *NM*
23/09/2012 10:37:31 PM
- 245 Views
If you can get the IRS to certify you as a 501(c)(3), then yes. If not, no. *NM*
23/09/2012 11:07:13 PM
- 213 Views
To whatever extent that we should support charity beyond taxation, yes, you are, IMO.
24/09/2012 03:56:31 AM
- 500 Views
I agree with you
24/09/2012 11:25:14 AM
- 1900 Views
I DISagree with both of you.
25/09/2012 02:36:05 AM
- 1815 Views
Re: I DISagree with both of you.
25/09/2012 02:26:16 PM
- 798 Views
The difference there is between non-profit and for-profit organizations.
26/09/2012 04:09:00 AM
- 514 Views
At the risk of sounding like a fundamentalist...
23/09/2012 11:05:14 PM
- 546 Views
Local symphonies are usually charities
23/09/2012 11:21:07 PM
- 533 Views
Yes - cultural and educational non-profits are usually tax-deductible.
24/09/2012 01:57:13 PM
- 490 Views
Re: Yes - cultural and educational non-profits are usually tax-deductible.
24/09/2012 02:58:17 PM
- 622 Views
will you count Scientology as a church?
26/09/2012 03:26:53 PM
- 530 Views
Unrelated business income is taxable under IRC 511. You know that.
27/09/2012 11:31:45 PM
- 505 Views
Let's look at this from a different point of view....
24/09/2012 11:51:43 PM
- 475 Views
I covered that point of view in my response.
25/09/2012 03:31:38 AM
- 634 Views
I routinely do not read your posts (including this one)... Too long.
25/09/2012 04:12:24 PM
- 505 Views
Relating a typically long and tortuous experience with (private) bureaucracy was itself protracted.
26/09/2012 04:15:35 AM
- 463 Views