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It is an old debate, and one with many edits. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/09/2012 06:32:40 AM
President Barack Obama:
Income: $790,000
Federal taxes: $162,000
Tax rate: 20.5 percent
Charitable donations: $172,000

100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 42.3%

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney:
Income: $13.7 million
Federal taxes: $1.94 million
Tax rate: 14.1 percent
Charitable donations: $4 million

100 * (Federal Taxes + Charitable Donations) / Income = 43.4%

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So, while they may disagree on the appropriateness of the method by which income should be contributed to society (Obama through taxes, Romney through charity), they are both contributing practically the same proportion of their income.

My personal view is more in line with Obama's and Buffet's. The nation should have relatively more control over distribution of the wealth that it helps create than it does now. But even with that attitude, I don't think people are going to find much to reasonably criticize in Romney's 2011 filing. Going after him for -not- claiming charitable deductions is going to backfire if the Democratic party keeps it up. By the same token, the Republican party would be wise not to make too big a deal out of their respective charitable donations.

While I also generally favor national discretion on social spending, the first problem is that only federal government can exercise such discretion, and conservatives have a justified distrust of how efficiently, honestly and impartially it does so. The other problem is peoples right to decide how their own money is spent, not have its expenditure dictated, especially for things they strongly and fundamentally oppose. I counter those arguments thus:

1) We have the right, responsibility and dire need of far more public oversight and accountability. It is all well to say "AUDIT THE FED111" but any such audit is pointless with no more public scrutiny than the CBO, OMB or GAO get. Complaining about how ones tax money is spent without KNOWING how is as idiotic as complaining about how one is represented without voting. Participatory democracy is ultimately a redundant phrase; unless it is participatory, it is not democracy.

2) The price of living in society is, well, living IN society. It is no more reasonable to proclaim "I alone decide how my money is spent!" than "I alone decide where my Army is deployed!" Tax money is not any one persons money: It is the nations money, hence the tax. Each of us has a voice in how that is spent, but no more than anyone else (though that is admittedly a hard sell on K Street. :[) I dislike my taxes paying for US multinationals to fire my friends and family then send their jobs to Chinese non-wage-slaves, but until/unless enough people agree to elect a Congress that will end the practice it will continue.

To the latter point I would add that we tried meeting societys needs with charity alone, and most of the elderly lived in shameful bitter poverty. That all changed in 1933; thanks to Social Security and Medicare only about 10% of Americas elderly live in poverty now. Not coincidentally, US life expectancy has risen 20 years since then. The simple fact is we cannot afford to leave national needs to charity and just hope enough people will generously contribute to cover all the unavoidable expenses.

Anyway, that is the distinction as I understand it: The contention individuals both can and should decide what social needs to fund, and will do so most effectively if allowed, vs. the contention national needs must be met with national means, with no ones duty to contribute nor right to participate ignored.
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This message last edited by Joel on 23/09/2012 at 06:42:23 AM
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Taxes and Charity - 23/09/2012 04:57:07 AM 1053 Views
Proof that Burr is ..... - 23/09/2012 05:05:37 AM 502 Views
Voting. - 23/09/2012 06:43:12 AM 607 Views
Joel = Fool ; I vote every year, are you just saying random things now? *NM* - 25/09/2012 01:42:49 AM 196 Views
"I am proud to say that I didn't vote for anyone in 2004."-Anonymous2000 - 25/09/2012 01:52:00 AM 692 Views
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? - 25/09/2012 02:54:28 AM 513 Views
"Anyone" means "anyone;" perhaps you have a writing comprehension problem. - 25/09/2012 03:39:11 AM 496 Views
Joel = Moron - 25/09/2012 04:37:15 AM 516 Views
You could leave out the insults, you know? - 25/09/2012 08:35:12 AM 587 Views
It is an old debate, and one with many edits. - 23/09/2012 06:32:40 AM 689 Views
Re: Taxes and Charity - 23/09/2012 07:47:16 AM 597 Views
I imagine much of Romney's charitable giving is to the Mormon Church. - 23/09/2012 12:08:45 PM 554 Views
Almost all of my charitable giving goes to Mercy Corps - 23/09/2012 03:48:30 PM 525 Views
Let me see how I interpret this post... - 23/09/2012 04:56:20 PM 573 Views
huh? - 23/09/2012 06:49:52 PM 643 Views
I would argue that "our society" includes the rest of the world as well. *NM* - 26/09/2012 03:24:02 PM 216 Views
Ok - 26/09/2012 07:36:35 PM 586 Views
Is the Mormon Church not part of society? But that issue is part of why I favor taxation. *NM* - 23/09/2012 10:14:39 PM 204 Views
I'm part of society too. Does that mean I'm as worthy a recipient of money as the public purse? *NM* - 23/09/2012 10:37:31 PM 245 Views
To whatever extent that we should support charity beyond taxation, yes, you are, IMO. - 24/09/2012 03:56:31 AM 500 Views
I agree with you - 24/09/2012 11:25:14 AM 1900 Views
Charity in place of tax - 24/09/2012 12:05:03 PM 543 Views
I am very well aware of that. *NM* - 24/09/2012 01:47:06 PM 200 Views
I DISagree with both of you. - 25/09/2012 02:36:05 AM 1815 Views
Re: I DISagree with both of you. - 25/09/2012 02:26:16 PM 798 Views
At the risk of sounding like a fundamentalist... - 23/09/2012 11:05:14 PM 546 Views
Local symphonies are usually charities - 23/09/2012 11:21:07 PM 533 Views
Very well said. *NM* - 24/09/2012 06:12:23 PM 232 Views
will you count Scientology as a church? - 26/09/2012 03:26:53 PM 530 Views
You need both. - 26/09/2012 03:35:41 PM 585 Views

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