The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation.
Tom Send a noteboard - 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM
Hebrew original (that part of Daniel is in Hebrew, not Aramaic) :
ואין לו העתים
w'ein lo [ha'itim]
Literal translation: and nothing to him [judgment]
Free translation: and he has nothing [he has no judgment]
The word "judgment" is not in all MSS and so it is in brackets, and affects the reading of the whole passage
Septuagint:
και κριμα ουκ εστιν εν αυτω
Literal translation: and judgment is not upon him
NB: subscript iota on the omega not typed out in the interests of time
Vuglate:
et non erit eius
Literal translation: and it will not be his
Coptic:
mmon hap shop nhrai
Literal translation: and there is no judgment upon him
Peshitta:
ܖܠܐ ܐܝܬ ܠܗ
u'la it leh
Literal translation: and nothing to him
Slavonic:
и судъ не будетъ в немъ
Literal translation: and judgment will not be in him
As you can see, the Eastern Churches follow the Septuagint reading, which is the non-standard reading for the Masoretic Text. The Masoretic Text was followed by the Western Church and by the Syriac Peshitta because the Peshitta translated the Old Testament directly from the Masoretic Text.
ואין לו העתים
w'ein lo [ha'itim]
Literal translation: and nothing to him [judgment]
Free translation: and he has nothing [he has no judgment]
The word "judgment" is not in all MSS and so it is in brackets, and affects the reading of the whole passage
Septuagint:
και κριμα ουκ εστιν εν αυτω
Literal translation: and judgment is not upon him
NB: subscript iota on the omega not typed out in the interests of time
Vuglate:
et non erit eius
Literal translation: and it will not be his
Coptic:
mmon hap shop nhrai
Literal translation: and there is no judgment upon him
Peshitta:
ܖܠܐ ܐܝܬ ܠܗ
u'la it leh
Literal translation: and nothing to him
Slavonic:
и судъ не будетъ в немъ
Literal translation: and judgment will not be in him
As you can see, the Eastern Churches follow the Septuagint reading, which is the non-standard reading for the Masoretic Text. The Masoretic Text was followed by the Western Church and by the Syriac Peshitta because the Peshitta translated the Old Testament directly from the Masoretic Text.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 21/09/2012 at 12:07:05 AM
So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds...
- 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM
1225 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM*
- 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM
552 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church.
- 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM
857 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride"
- 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM
825 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God?
- 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM
820 Views
BRIDE
- 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM
795 Views
I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description. 
*NM*
- 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
402 Views
*NM*
- 20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
402 Views
That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride.
- 20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM
870 Views
It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well.
- 20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM
819 Views
The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment.
- 20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM
861 Views
Two things why it is important
- 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM
796 Views
Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really?
- 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM
871 Views
Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy?
- 20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
789 Views
I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better.
- 20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM
755 Views
It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical.
- 20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM
825 Views
The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation.
- 21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM
765 Views
I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities.
- 21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM
834 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD:
- 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM
737 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD.
- 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM
745 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it?
- 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM
817 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies
- 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM
727 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course.
- 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM
797 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point.
- 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM
765 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD.
- 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
777 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors.
- 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM
707 Views
Not even Mark or Luke?
- 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM
735 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek
- 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM
685 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice.
- 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM
747 Views
Some people did "lie big".
- 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM
776 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter.
- 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM
843 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but...
- 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM
816 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though.
- 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM
772 Views
The Gnostic response would be:
- 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM
717 Views
That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence.
- 25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM
863 Views
The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long.
- 25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
701 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition?
- 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM
819 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago.
- 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM
765 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well
- 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM
907 Views
Let's not get started on Funk
- 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM
705 Views
don't these people have anything better to do?
- 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM
743 Views
Clearly not.
- 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM
656 Views