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Re: People keep talking about Obama as a change from the Bush era but what di he really change? DomA Send a noteboard - 15/09/2012 01:55:42 AM
If you look at what was wrong with the Bush years there is very lirrle that changed with Obama. He slowed down our energy developed and increased some regulations that further slowed the economy but beyond that he just made Europe feel better and gave the media tingles. Even the tax policy he was so much against is the same as when he took office.


Most of what you mention are internal matters, not of great concern to most foreigners (with perhaps the exception of Canada, where a lot of you internal policies, federal or at state level, have repercussions whether economic or even socially, and thus are discussed and looked at in the media). By and large, Bush fairly or unfairly rather sort of incarnated the epitome of what people found irritating about the USA or Americans - he was the poster boy for that, almost to the point of caricature. He kind of exacerbated usually well buried feelings or prejudices even among close allied countries that have strictly no reason to antagonize or dislike the USA (such as Canada, for instance), and in countries with a real streak of anti-americanism... well, you know. I can't think of any single man who's done more than GWB to spread and expand anti-american feelings worldwide (and it's definitely not Europe only, and it goes way beyond the boundaries of "the left" (even the Democrats are considered center right or center at best in many aspects of politics in the more liberal countries - that's not what bothers foreigners). We're not particularly anti-American here (and Canadians probably know you best, what you're really like I mean - your culture is part of ours and share a lot with ours, we understand many of the various American ways of thinking and so on - a lot of us have visited many areas of the US, not to mention the place is always full of American tourists too, and many of us work with Americans a lot), but during the Bush years hating Americans, and expressing those feelings was becoming fairly common - at least after Bush's re election, when a lot of people were blaming the Americans, the only ones who could do something for real, for letting the world down by putting him back in office. Mobilizing more than a handful of people for anti-America protests was something not seen since Vietnam here, and actually the protests were bigger than those of the Vietnam years. You're a bit unfair with Obama by minimizing his efforts to correct that - economical efforts and mostly with a simple change of attitude and his personality (rather than concrete actual changes to US diplomacy) he's managed to convince at least your allies and non-enemies things had changed and it wasn't America or its people they were fed up with or hating, but the GWB administration. He aimed to present himself outside the US as a new JFK - or at least as someone with the attitude of JFK (who remains the most admired president outside the US - with near mythic status), and the world bought it. I think it's one of the things he did right, he understood perhaps much better than the average American what people abroad needed to hear from the new US president. The most virulent anti-americanism disappeared soon with his election - because of Obama, though part of the harm done to the US's reputation by Bush will probably take a generation or two to vanish and it takes less to spark anti-US comments than before Bush (and in places where you wouldn't see much of that before).

In some areas, it's much worse than that - that anti-americanism is deep and widespread, was there before Bush obviously even though his personality, his attitude and his policies made it all much worse - and it doesn't take much to make it explode again. And unlike among your allies, it's gonna to take a lot more than Obama's little changes to alter that (though I admit I find the reactions of the muslims around me, or from the city seen on the news surprisingly mild. They were much harsher during the Bush years. Most of the people interviewed were shocked and surprised by the outbreaks of violence on the one hand, and didn't especially blame the US for it. the most 'anti-american" comment we hear, and it's not anti-american per say, is a symptomatic remnant of the Bush effect, that is the local muslims are puzzled that muslims fell for such an obvious and ridiculous provocation, but they say things like "I don't understand how they can fall for that when it's so obvious this is the work of radical elements from Israel - possibly Mossad, inviting itself that way in the US presidential campaign via fringe republican elements, obviously not with the blessing or knowledge of the Republican party, just "loose cannons"radicals likely christian fundamentalists from the "moral" right acting on their own, who thought provoking the muslim world into anti-US protests would help Romney's campaign.

It's a bit too conspiracy theorist for me, though admittedly the timing of it all, with the campaign going, Obama and Romney being so close in the polls and with sept. 11 offering an opportunity, I find this far more credible than an Al-Qaeda action scenario (though it's highly likely some of the answers to the provocation are the work of terrorists rather than real mob actions). The whole thing stinks massively, in any case.
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Question: did the Egyptian government apologize for letting a mob attack our embassy on 9/11/12? - 12/09/2012 03:37:00 PM 1042 Views
I haven't seen it, but I honestly wasn't looking for that. - 12/09/2012 04:00:39 PM 647 Views
The administration did issue an apology, which was stupid. - 12/09/2012 04:21:04 PM 598 Views
Don't get me started. I'm not in the mood, and I might rip your face off. - 12/09/2012 04:30:57 PM 502 Views
Try it. - 12/09/2012 05:28:37 PM 546 Views
... No, thanks. *NM* - 12/09/2012 05:39:30 PM 252 Views
Aw...I was hoping to see what "ripping off" my face would look like. *NM* - 12/09/2012 05:56:41 PM 269 Views
Unfortunately, I'm much calmer today. - 13/09/2012 03:47:20 PM 474 Views
I'm profoundly disappointed. - 13/09/2012 05:22:54 PM 490 Views
Would you care to cite this apology the US administration issued? - 12/09/2012 08:40:35 PM 633 Views
Timeline and statements - 12/09/2012 09:20:39 PM 699 Views
what is stupid is deliberately distorting the actual statements in order to be outraged at obama - 13/09/2012 04:01:04 PM 605 Views
I'm not outraged personally. - 13/09/2012 05:14:59 PM 493 Views
Besides, the whole point of this post was to question Egypt's position, not Romney OR Obama's *NM* - 13/09/2012 05:16:02 PM 276 Views
Uh huh... - 15/09/2012 02:33:39 AM 515 Views
Don't know, don't care. - 12/09/2012 04:24:18 PM 525 Views
No government has apologized to anyone for the attacks, to my knowledge. - 12/09/2012 05:37:45 PM 725 Views
So we're the only ones who apologized to anyone? That's disgusting. - 12/09/2012 05:55:39 PM 622 Views
Re: So we're the only ones who apologized to anyone? That's disgusting. - 12/09/2012 08:26:07 PM 683 Views
Dunno about apologies - 12/09/2012 08:38:04 PM 532 Views
Clarification, please: Egypt arrested four of the perpetrators, or Libya (or both)? - 12/09/2012 08:45:11 PM 722 Views
Egypt. - 12/09/2012 08:55:37 PM 645 Views
Ah, thanks. - 12/09/2012 11:01:22 PM 518 Views
does anyone know where Romney actually stands on this? - 12/09/2012 11:26:47 PM 552 Views
NO ONE is as confused as Romney. - 12/09/2012 11:48:23 PM 608 Views
I don't know if he's confused... - 13/09/2012 12:09:16 PM 603 Views
Romney never "had" the foreign press to lose... - 13/09/2012 02:08:59 PM 558 Views
Re: Romney never "had" the foreign press to lose... - 14/09/2012 01:06:38 AM 503 Views
If we were scared of unprepared leaders we never would have picked Obama - 13/09/2012 09:51:45 PM 533 Views
Re: If we were scared of unprepared leaders we never would have picked Obama - 14/09/2012 01:25:13 AM 620 Views
People keep talking about Obama as a change from the Bush era but what di he really change? - 14/09/2012 10:54:18 AM 587 Views
Re: People keep talking about Obama as a change from the Bush era but what di he really change? - 15/09/2012 01:55:42 AM 521 Views
Yeah, but Romney isn't running against 2008 Obama. He's running against a 4-year president. - 14/09/2012 02:35:22 AM 623 Views
But Romney is very experienced and Obama wasn't - 14/09/2012 11:14:08 AM 673 Views
obama can speak without putting his foot in his mouth, romney can't - 14/09/2012 04:01:38 PM 608 Views
to bad he can't do it in all 57 states without offending people who live god and guns - 14/09/2012 04:11:50 PM 525 Views
you're living in the past - 14/09/2012 05:46:26 PM 466 Views
Can Egypt afford to apologize at the moment? - 14/09/2012 03:21:53 AM 587 Views
Oh great now it's our embassy in Sudan that is on fire - 14/09/2012 02:12:21 PM 576 Views
I suspect there is a very perverse dynamic at work here. - 14/09/2012 04:57:28 PM 628 Views
I love how the media are tying all this to a movie that no one watched. - 14/09/2012 03:22:38 PM 505 Views
What's this about then? - 15/09/2012 12:21:45 AM 492 Views
Wish I knew - 15/09/2012 03:43:32 AM 522 Views

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