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I said start. I quite agree with you about the things that went on after the wars themselves ended. Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/09/2012 08:51:58 PM
Iraq committed multiple violations of the armistice treaty they signed (from a war they started)and did things like fire on America planes and try and assianiate our former presidents not to mention kicking out UN inspectors. After the fall of Iraq the people of Iraq decided to commit sustained war on each not to mention US troops and in the process drug extended the war years longer than the few months it should have lasted. What passed for a government in Afghanistan allowed their country to be used as a terrorist base to plan and train for attacks against the US.

Iraq started the First Gulf War, obviously, the Americans started the Second. I'm not saying they had no reasons to do so, but it's just a blatant disregard of reality to claim anyone else started it. The side that opens hostilities is the side that starts the war, even if the other side provoked it (in non-military ways, that is of course, Pearl Harbour certainly counts as opening hostilities as well as being a provocation).

And if al Qaeda had been the government of Afghanistan, then yes, you could say they had started the war. The Taliban defending al-Qaeda and refusing to crack down on them, that's a reason to declare war, but it's not starting a war. I never said the party to start the war was always automatically in the wrong, or anything like that.

In both countries the war could have been short with a short occupation except for the fact that they choose to try and kill each other and drag it long after they had lost. If the Germans had behaved the way the Iraqis had behaved after loosing WWII it would have gone even worse for them because we are kindler and gentler nation now with a less friendly press corp.

Absolutely agree, and that's what I'm saying - that Germany was very different from Iraq, and that it was obvious from the start that "nation-building" in Iraq would be far harder than what the Americans had to do in Germany (I really don't know much about the occupation in Japan, which is why I'm mostly talking about Germany).
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Biden claims Romney wants war with Syria and Iran. Burr - 02/09/2012 10:48:24 PM 862 Views
Meh. Sounds like a non-story. But my thoughts, for what they're worth. Legolas - 02/09/2012 11:05:52 PM 472 Views
Biden should be busy preparing to debate Ryan so he is not shredded, instead of saying stupid things Joel - 02/09/2012 11:52:35 PM 536 Views
+1 - Biden is going to get destroyed by Ryan..... Anonymous2000 - 03/09/2012 02:23:49 AM 350 Views
I try not to think about it. Joel - 03/09/2012 02:47:33 AM 556 Views
We should introduce a new military doctrine Tom - 03/09/2012 02:46:33 AM 425 Views
I still think the post-war Axis powers the best model, but that requires equivalent manpower. Joel - 03/09/2012 03:57:12 AM 461 Views
It's a terrible model. Tom - 03/09/2012 11:42:36 PM 346 Views
Re: It's a terrible model. Joel - 04/09/2012 04:09:21 AM 534 Views
I recently read Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers, about a regiment from the 101st in WW2. Legolas - 04/09/2012 10:29:01 PM 488 Views
wars they didn't start themselves? how do you figure that? random thoughts - 04/09/2012 10:45:07 PM 411 Views
We cannot hold all Afghanistan/Iraq accountable for governments against which they were powerless. Joel - 04/09/2012 11:54:46 PM 452 Views
so what? Governments habe always been who goes to war random thoughts - 05/09/2012 02:55:25 AM 471 Views
True, but we cannot hold people responsible for actions of their undemocratic governments. Joel - 05/09/2012 03:19:20 AM 420 Views
well thanks to the US they now have democratcily elected governments and can be held accountable *NM* random thoughts - 05/09/2012 02:30:41 PM 180 Views
Democratically elected? We will be propping it up with the US Army for at least two more years. Joel - 05/09/2012 07:19:21 PM 446 Views
being propped up by the US military doesn't make it not a democracy random thoughts - 05/09/2012 07:29:42 PM 375 Views
Political power that comes out of the barrel of a gun precludes democracy. Joel - 05/09/2012 09:01:40 PM 457 Views
it was always a lost cost and all governments are backed up by the barrel of a gun random thoughts - 05/09/2012 09:49:51 PM 430 Views
No more so than Iraq, but at least there was a threat to America to fight in Afghanistan. Joel - 23/09/2012 04:51:14 AM 350 Views
I said start. I quite agree with you about the things that went on after the wars themselves ended. Legolas - 05/09/2012 08:51:58 PM 493 Views
shooting at our aircraft is none hostile? random thoughts - 05/09/2012 10:06:07 PM 433 Views
Eh. It's not the beginning of a war, no. Legolas - 05/09/2012 10:31:52 PM 452 Views
An act of war is almost by definition the beginning of a war. Joel - 23/09/2012 04:58:25 AM 439 Views
It is very difficult to reconcile this post with Toms. Joel - 04/09/2012 11:50:06 PM 390 Views
Yes, I noticed that. Legolas - 05/09/2012 09:27:14 PM 431 Views
Apparently I only THOUGHT I responded to this post (sorry.) Joel - 23/09/2012 04:30:47 AM 444 Views
Hey, remember when Bush invaded Iraq? For no reason at all, it turned out? beetnemesis - 03/09/2012 01:56:49 AM 374 Views
Realistically, I don't think Romney would do MUCH different. But that little bit... Tom - 03/09/2012 02:19:14 AM 396 Views
After all the moeny he took from Sheldon Adelson he HAS to attack Iran. Adelson will foot the bill. *NM* Aisha - 03/09/2012 05:19:27 AM 152 Views
Thanks Tom, Joel, and Legolas. *NM* Burr - 03/09/2012 03:56:56 PM 133 Views
I don't think Romney is that interested in starting a war with anyone random thoughts - 04/09/2012 02:39:14 PM 459 Views
Re: Biden claims Romney wants war with Syria and Iran. everynametaken - 05/09/2012 04:22:51 AM 425 Views
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