Huh, I think I hit submit by accident, before replying. Anyway:
Dan Send a noteboard - 02/09/2012 12:42:38 AM
Convening in a stadium mostly built with municipal (i.e. government) bonds and trotting out successful entrepreneurs to thank Romney and Bain for all the help that got them started is a poor example of self-reliance. It says Staples, Steel Dynamics etc. only succeeded thanks to investor, supplier, employee and consumer contributions IN ADDITION TO (not instead of) its owners notable ones. Successful American businesses are the result of the American economic system, and are therefore community, not individual, achievements.
Community does not mean government. But hey, nothing like drawing a false choice between all or nothing alternatives where "more than one person's involvement" equals proof of the moral supremacy of government solutions, and a straw man position of individual accomplishment defined as accomplishments that relied on nothing from no one else. SOMEBODY ELSE MADE THE FOOD YOU ATE WHILE INVENTING THAT DEVICE IN YOUR HAND_BUILT GARAGE! OMG! YOU ARE TOTALLY RELIANT ON THE COMMUNITY, THEREFORE SOCIALISM WORKS!!!
Since the Republican National Convention culminated in that admission, what remains to debate?
Obama's implict claim that someone else is entitled to a claim for the credit and/or profits. The road was already built from taxes already paid, the municipal bonds were voluntarily purchased (not that I agree with bonds being sold for such purposes), and the community which enabled all this to happen, was established and built well before the socialist ball got rolling. Government did not create that community, it subsists off of it. Government is more concerned with interfering in the community when it does not meet the racial makeup the government thinks appropriate, or wants to consume substances the government disapproves of it buying and selling, or wants to engage in private business transactions that people who know nothing about business dislike on the grounds that the transactions might make people rich. Isn't it fallacious to so sharply divide the past from the future, in terms of taxes? The road has been already built and the entrepreneur has succeeded, but there are further roads to be built to be utilized by further entrepreneurs. There were recent tax cuts and wars, so doesn't that just indicate that it's a pretty fluid situation?
Your comparison is like saying that anyone who buys health insurance but opposes Obamacare is a hypocrite. Not that there aren't more than their fair share of hypocrites at the RNC (i.e. anyone who opposes or supports some but not all of the various Wars on Abstract Concepts: War on Terror, War on Poverty, War on Drugs etc). Sure we'll trumpet free enterprise and lack of regulation, but pot, oh HELL no! Romney has explicitly declared military cuts off the table, IIRC, but we have no land enemies, and our naval dominance makes the British Empire's Admiralty look like pikers for merely settling for a navy bigger than any two. Ours out-floats the REST OF THE WORLD, but no. THAT government program is untouchable. If the government did not build this country, the greatest in the world (and I dare any speaker at the RNC to say otherwise), why is it okay for government to try building the Happy Democratic Utopias of Iraq & Afghanistan (and presumably Iran)?
Not that it really matters. Chris Christie effectively threw in the towel for the presidential race with a speech that was not so much in support of the Romney 2012 Campaign as the Christie 2016 Campaign.
This message last edited by Dan on 02/09/2012 at 12:46:36 AM
Does Not a "WE [Not I] BUILT THIS!" Banner Concede Warren and Obama Were Right?
01/09/2012 02:45:52 PM
- 819 Views
It amazing how much the left doesn't get tis issue
01/09/2012 02:55:44 PM
- 548 Views
It is amazing how well every sentence but your last covers the "We [not I] built this" view
01/09/2012 03:29:27 PM
- 564 Views
+1 - nicely said. The "built it" comment drives the left crazy, since they know.....
01/09/2012 04:25:52 PM
- 463 Views
Nope, it drives us crazy because it's an out-of-context fragment quote
01/09/2012 07:01:24 PM
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they all know what he said and context doesn't change it *NM*
01/09/2012 07:11:01 PM
- 269 Views
This is the kind of shit that makes me and my family not want to vote Republican.
02/09/2012 12:01:01 AM
- 547 Views
Interesting response....
02/09/2012 12:07:01 AM
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They're both acting normal (for politicians)
02/09/2012 12:12:31 AM
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I disagree; they both did something downright bizarre (again, for politicians; see link.)
02/09/2012 12:20:32 AM
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Heh.
02/09/2012 12:25:10 AM
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Bah, everyone knows Taxachusetts residents are mad, and tyrants to boot.
02/09/2012 03:04:57 AM
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Yes the GOP really need to make more effort into trying to win Massachusetts
02/09/2012 02:17:49 PM
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Exactly, the context doesn't help. Libs believe government knows all and makes all possible.
01/09/2012 08:25:51 PM
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Sigh... what words a quote contains is not a matter of "POV."
01/09/2012 09:01:17 PM
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Seriously. Like, I'm not debating policy here- I am saying that those are the literal words. *NM*
01/09/2012 11:53:39 PM
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I do not understand how that can be debated, yet it keeps happening.
02/09/2012 12:03:44 AM
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What should disturb you is what a bunch of unhinged hypocrites your party has become
02/09/2012 02:38:34 PM
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I have no party, and have already said mischaracterizing "corporations are people" is just as bad.
02/09/2012 04:15:01 PM
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Would you give a me link to where you created post upset about how Romney was being treated?
02/09/2012 09:10:03 PM
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Sure; the last time was about three days ago in response to you.
02/09/2012 09:20:55 PM
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are you on crack? that is a post of you defending the stupid Bain attacks on Romney
02/09/2012 09:30:00 PM
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You brought up Bain there; I merely responded and noted Romneys "corp." line was also misused.
02/09/2012 10:12:52 PM
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Joel. That's the thinking of a 12-year-old. You're better than that. *NM*
01/09/2012 05:17:25 PM
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Saying "you didn't build that" denigrates individuals is twelve-year-old thinking:I merely note that
01/09/2012 05:45:06 PM
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I know what Obama meant to say. If he said it to me I would want to punch him in his liberal mouth.
02/09/2012 12:23:47 AM
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Ok, I'll put this very naively.
02/09/2012 12:36:33 AM
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Obama had his chance.
02/09/2012 12:43:25 AM
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True, I think. I just wish the RNC had taken a more concrete approach like you did. Could fuck them. *NM*
02/09/2012 12:52:58 AM
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"The Democratic health care bill that bears Obama's name for no good reason"
02/09/2012 03:44:18 AM
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and you really want us to believe it is a few comments that are keeping you from voting republican? *NM*
02/09/2012 02:40:13 PM
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Your suggestion that what I floated to Tom is somehow antithetical to the GOP is laughable. *NM*
02/09/2012 05:29:33 PM
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In fairness to rt, that sounds a lot like a welfare state, which is pretty antithetical to the GOP.
02/09/2012 07:10:47 PM
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Most are willing to enter the debate, and give a measure of ground. Hence Romneycare. *NM*
02/09/2012 10:40:21 PM
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Fair enough, but once the show goes national we get Romneys pledge to repeal Romneycare.
02/09/2012 11:10:55 PM
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"If you don't want to root for your team, then you should get the hell out of the stadium."
02/09/2012 02:15:11 AM
- 524 Views
Your political philosophy seems based on ignoring the difference between voluntary & compulsory
02/09/2012 12:38:50 AM
- 600 Views
Huh, I think I hit submit by accident, before replying. Anyway:
02/09/2012 12:42:38 AM
- 679 Views
Yours seems based on ignoring the "WE THE PEOPLE" at the top of the document creating US government.
02/09/2012 02:48:45 AM
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I think there is something to be said for charitable interpretation.
02/09/2012 02:10:10 AM
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I am not sure what the best argument against the best reading of his argument would be.
02/09/2012 03:13:46 AM
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I don't think so
02/09/2012 01:47:03 PM
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True, but self-reliant individualism goes poorly with plural nouns.*
02/09/2012 04:18:22 PM
- 496 Views