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How could he save a plant already closed? Joel Send a noteboard - 01/09/2012 08:31:55 PM
Ryan claimed that Obama failed to save the plant like said he would by retooling it and selling green cars and it was operating on a limited basis when Obama bought GM. He told the people that under his leadership it could be saved. The fact that it was mostly closed when he took office is irrelevant since it was already scheduled to close when he made the promise. Nothing significant changed that prevented Obama from retooling the plant except for the complete failure of the Obama green economy strategy. That was the point and in this case the fact checkers failed since they stopped being fact checkers when they started putting their own opinions of how the issue should be viewed into the mix.

Sorry in a discussion on how much you can trust fact checkers claiming your argument is more valid because it comes from the same suspect fact checkers is a circular argument and as such it is completely worthless.

That is the beauty of facts: Checking by Politifact, Walker, the Man in the Moon or ANYONE clearly shows closure was decided six months, and employees fired one month, before Obama took office. He never "bought GM" anyway, because the publicly purchased GM stock granted no control, but could not prevent a literal fait accompli even if had: At most, he could only re-open a plant already closed. He made an extravagant impossible promise typical of politicians, but that is all he did.
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This message last edited by Joel on 01/09/2012 at 08:33:40 PM
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how to make political convention speeches more entertaining - 31/08/2012 03:57:11 PM 586 Views
If they did that, I would actually watch. - 31/08/2012 04:18:06 PM 824 Views
Ditto - 31/08/2012 04:42:37 PM 472 Views
Ha, like Pop-Up Video! - 31/08/2012 05:04:41 PM 432 Views
That similarity occured to me, too. *NM* - 31/08/2012 09:37:22 PM 223 Views
and how fact checks the fact checkers? *NM* - 31/08/2012 05:19:45 PM 200 Views
Fox, presumably. - 31/08/2012 06:05:56 PM 675 Views
the fact checkers tend be journalist and deserve all the trust that goes with that *NM* - 01/09/2012 10:36:18 AM 224 Views
Facts are facts, and not in the eye of the beholder. - 01/09/2012 12:08:41 PM 428 Views
That might be true if fat checkers limited themsleves to facts and not opinion - 01/09/2012 02:44:41 PM 504 Views
Stating opinions as fact invites checking them as facts. - 01/09/2012 02:59:23 PM 638 Views
I will let Scott Wlaker explain it to you - 01/09/2012 05:56:00 PM 617 Views
Even Walker admits "It’s closed — has been as long as Obama has been president." - 01/09/2012 06:27:32 PM 604 Views
well since Ryan never claimed Obama caused the plant to close it doesn't matter when it closed - 01/09/2012 08:10:26 PM 437 Views
How could he save a plant already closed? - 01/09/2012 08:31:55 PM 422 Views
It's obvious. - 01/09/2012 10:12:33 PM 488 Views
Of course; how could I have been so blind. - 01/09/2012 10:41:03 PM 397 Views
That is a great idea that will never happen. - 31/08/2012 06:08:30 PM 583 Views
I loathe the conventions, but this will make it worse - 01/09/2012 03:52:15 AM 467 Views
you're talking about what people who already follow these things do - 01/09/2012 06:40:42 AM 411 Views
We fundamentally disagree - 01/09/2012 01:54:26 PM 605 Views

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