Expanding our perspective does not improve our options much, sadly.
Joel Send a noteboard - 14/08/2012 04:23:48 PM
Even if it does much to explain the length of my posts. Running a nation of 310 million is necessarily a nuanced exercise. Too bad nuance does not win elections.
It comes down to how much one can reasonably expect of an anti-government government, and the only reasonable answer is "nothing." If Republicans were calling for LESS (rather than NO) spending, with increased oversight and accountability to reduce fraud and waste, that would be supportable, even laudable. However, that is not what is on the table; the two party system is offering another all-or-nothing choice between expanded government or none.
Best case scenario is probably Obamas insistence on industry subsidies instead of the "shovel ready" jobs he promised (combined with GOP Congressional obstructionism) slowing government spending and trimming the deficit without doing anything to stimulate the economy. Remember, we got an $800 billion stimulus despite Obamas advisors telling him full recovery required $1+ trillion, solely because he did not want to let Republicans say he added a trillion dollars to the deficit (how did that work out? )
That is not an appealing choice, but Romneys stated plan to raise middle and lower class taxes to pay for a millionaire tax cut is worse. Even if it actually created trickle-down jobs (which would be a historic first,) the wages of new employees would just be taxed out of existence to pay for it. It is not even about no taxes vs. higher taxes any more, but whose should increase. Apart from that, the GOPs only plan for government is to eliminate what exists—except in the bedroom and doctors office.
Just providing Jens with a viewpoint. I would like to say "they don't even show support for my most basic rights? Fuck 'em." But I can't, for my example and other reasons (obviously).
It comes down to how much one can reasonably expect of an anti-government government, and the only reasonable answer is "nothing." If Republicans were calling for LESS (rather than NO) spending, with increased oversight and accountability to reduce fraud and waste, that would be supportable, even laudable. However, that is not what is on the table; the two party system is offering another all-or-nothing choice between expanded government or none.
Best case scenario is probably Obamas insistence on industry subsidies instead of the "shovel ready" jobs he promised (combined with GOP Congressional obstructionism) slowing government spending and trimming the deficit without doing anything to stimulate the economy. Remember, we got an $800 billion stimulus despite Obamas advisors telling him full recovery required $1+ trillion, solely because he did not want to let Republicans say he added a trillion dollars to the deficit (how did that work out? )
That is not an appealing choice, but Romneys stated plan to raise middle and lower class taxes to pay for a millionaire tax cut is worse. Even if it actually created trickle-down jobs (which would be a historic first,) the wages of new employees would just be taxed out of existence to pay for it. It is not even about no taxes vs. higher taxes any more, but whose should increase. Apart from that, the GOPs only plan for government is to eliminate what exists—except in the bedroom and doctors office.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 14/08/2012 at 04:26:14 PM
Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate
11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM
- 1764 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year.
11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM
- 806 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous
11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM
- 774 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things
11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM
- 814 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months?
11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM
- 869 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people
12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM
- 895 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently
12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM
- 768 Views
I dunno, but from my perspective (and this is from one who doesn't follow politics closely)
11/08/2012 08:32:43 PM
- 1007 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron.....
12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM
- 715 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run.
12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM
- 738 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system.
12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM
- 879 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system?
12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM
- 713 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting.
12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM
- 961 Views
I'm with Joel on this. There's a big difference between voting third party and not voting.
12/08/2012 07:31:29 PM
- 872 Views
Nice asshatery.
12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM
- 955 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option.....
12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM
- 728 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM*
12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM
- 388 Views
Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please."
12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM
- 1153 Views
Well there's a difference between not voting at all and not voting in one race
12/08/2012 05:55:47 PM
- 893 Views
Usually only in degree, not kind, though I mostly had the former in mind.
12/08/2012 07:27:54 PM
- 842 Views
I hope that most of the disenchanted Obama 08 suppoerters feel the same way *NM*
13/08/2012 11:27:15 AM
- 377 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan
11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM
- 790 Views
What a shock.
11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM
- 911 Views
Most Republicans are fine with gutting Medicare.
11/08/2012 08:31:03 PM
- 1006 Views
Everyone with an ounce of common sense is okay with "gutting" Medicare.....
12/08/2012 03:37:17 AM
- 725 Views
The only thing bankrupting Medicare is unsustainable US healthcare costs eating 20% of US GDP.
12/08/2012 03:56:28 AM
- 1033 Views
Silly comment - 30% of Medicare is FRAUD.....and the program is fatally flawed.
12/08/2012 04:09:26 AM
- 862 Views
So private insurance costs are really growing SIXTY percent faster?!
12/08/2012 04:24:49 AM
- 867 Views
Medicare worked for 50 years and SS for 80 because most people were DYING before 65.
12/08/2012 04:29:26 AM
- 664 Views
Eligibility age for both must increase (SSs has, but not enough.) They are not "unsustainable."
12/08/2012 04:31:57 AM
- 653 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november
11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM
- 815 Views
Since I forgot you asked Americans if it would change our votes: No, still voting Jill Stein (Green)
11/08/2012 11:07:12 PM
- 736 Views
Who cares? He's hot.
11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM
- 974 Views
I actually said, "He's not hot enough."
13/08/2012 01:15:58 PM
- 711 Views
On the plus side, you need not fear Ryans failure to mention abortion and contraception.
13/08/2012 03:17:45 PM
- 896 Views
Legolas a question for you, what is your opinion of George W Bush Social Security Plans in 2005?
12/08/2012 01:03:24 AM
- 726 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video.
12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM
- 712 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any
12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM
- 898 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee.
12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM
- 806 Views
Yes, they disavowed him
12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM
- 801 Views
Apparently the TN Democratic Party agrees voters should write in someone elses name.
12/08/2012 08:34:46 PM
- 772 Views
Does not work in the US
13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM
- 757 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters.
13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM
- 718 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything.
12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM
- 797 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not?
12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM
- 956 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience.
13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM
- 730 Views
What should Obama have done?
13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM
- 761 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama.
12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM
- 880 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand?
12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM
- 623 Views
No he doesn't disavow Ayn Rand, he still believes in her
13/08/2012 01:15:34 AM
- 812 Views
that is pretty mild of you campare it to the radical influence in Obama's life *NM*
13/08/2012 11:35:52 AM
- 489 Views
Ah, the classic "it is OK because their guy rapes puppies, too, even though he does not" defense.
13/08/2012 03:23:29 PM
- 654 Views
Obama doesn't have a history of openly endorsing the views of said radicals. *NM*
14/08/2012 12:32:52 AM
- 532 Views
he has a much closer and more personal realtionship with radicals than Romney or Ryan *NM*
20/08/2012 03:54:17 AM
- 495 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society.
13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM
- 925 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours
13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM
- 697 Views
Don't get me wrong
13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM
- 736 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did
13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM
- 876 Views
What an amusing retrospective.
13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM
- 891 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens.
14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM
- 666 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.)
14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM
- 738 Views
Interesting.
14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM
- 809 Views
They have a pill for that now.
14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM
- 849 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM*
15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM
- 511 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem.
16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM
- 804 Views
Disillusioned, sure. But I don't recall ever considering voting Republican.
14/08/2012 12:31:17 AM
- 814 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood?
13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM
- 670 Views
I saw a theory just after the announcement speculating Ryan was chosen as a scapegoat.
13/08/2012 03:33:56 PM
- 815 Views
I agree with your statements
14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM
- 891 Views
It's mostly nonsense
14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM
- 798 Views
Well
14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM
- 1011 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media
14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM
- 1004 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM
- 1055 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM
- 754 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad.
15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM
- 712 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway
15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM
- 899 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses.
14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM
- 830 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either.
14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM
- 881 Views
I see your point, but...
14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM
- 652 Views
Well
14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM
- 837 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again?
21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM
- 659 Views
Expanding our perspective does not improve our options much, sadly.
14/08/2012 04:23:48 PM
- 778 Views