Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please."
Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM
A complete an utter moron.
I'm not saying you have to vote for Romney or any other candidate, but voting for another 4 years of failure is ridiculous.
I am proud to say that I didn't vote for anyone in 2004. Don't be afraid to sit one out if the only option is to vote for the least bad candidate.
I'm not saying you have to vote for Romney or any other candidate, but voting for another 4 years of failure is ridiculous.
I am proud to say that I didn't vote for anyone in 2004. Don't be afraid to sit one out if the only option is to vote for the least bad candidate.
Anyone who complains about government without voting is beneath consideration: Your opinion is, by choice, irrelevant, except as a loud annoying distraction for those with sufficient civic duty to exercise self government. As the saying goes, "lead, follow, or get out of the way."
There is nothing wrong with not choosing a candidate for President when both are imbeciles (as in 2004). Our nation voting for "the lesser of two evils" over and over has come to the synthesis of our modern, flip-flopping ineffective Presidential candidates more concerned with polls and what people might think than living and dying by the side of core beliefs. I will be the first to admit that voting for Obama in 2008 was the wrong choice. I eat my crow. But, there was NO way I was going to vote for McCain. So yes, in hindsight, I should NOT have voted for either or anybody for that matter (as all the third party candidates are pretty much useless). To denigrate somebody for doing that is to take away his or her voice. If everybody would grow the set needed to say NO and the turnout for the Presidential election was something ridiculously low like 30% then maybe it would wake politicians up and tell them they had better change their tune.
So, just quit with your self-righteous "civic duty" bullshit.I and many other people are turned off by the sweet choice of Obama or Romney or, ooooh... maybe Nader will jump into the fray again. Or, maybe we can make a real statement by getting Lyndon LaRouche one tenth of one percent of the vote! Third party candidates... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...
There are good arguments for strategically choosing the lesser of two evils, or choosing a third party to vote ones conscience and/or as a protest against the two major parties. There is NO argument for not voting at all, because it accomplishes, can accomplish, NOTHING. I did not "take away his voice:" HE did. Sure, trzaska has raised a lot of Hell since 2008 (and previously,) but it is sound and fury signifying nothing.
The proof is 30% turnout would not be "ridiculously low." In a midterm, it would only be a few points below average (midterm turnout has not reached 40% in my lifetime.) It would be a significant drop for a presidential election, yes, but only mean hyper-partisans decided it. Neither they nor their candidates mind that; many prefer it, and, despite regular references to independent/moderate voters, returns and resulting policy suggest elections already work that way (to the extent they work.)
I hate to break this to you, but as long as you take it for granted each election has a maximum of two viable candidates, neither has any incentive to take the risky chance of offering you or anyone anything: They need only make the alternative too toxically unappealing for anyone to accept. Staying home does not exactly encourage them to reach out to you; their focus is (rightly) those who actually vote. As previously noted, Dems have been trying to transform non-voters into voters since the early '70s; 2008 was the first time it worked, and more because of Bushs unpopularity than anything Dems did. 70% of the country voting for no one would just tell the two major parties no one is minding the store; 70% of the country voting for third parties would send them a far more potent message (i.e. pink slips.)
So yes, voting is, in addition to a right for which countless American soldiers have selflessly died, civic duty in any participatory democracy. Everyone who denies their own voice in choosing their government has no business complaining about the government they let the rest of us choose for them. If they do not like it, they have repeated chances to do something about it every two years in November; it is no ones fault but their own if they do not.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 12/08/2012 at 05:37:57 PM
Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate
11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM
- 1764 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year.
11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM
- 805 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous
11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM
- 772 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things
11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM
- 814 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months?
11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM
- 867 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people
12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM
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They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently
12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM
- 768 Views
I dunno, but from my perspective (and this is from one who doesn't follow politics closely)
11/08/2012 08:32:43 PM
- 1007 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron.....
12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM
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If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run.
12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM
- 737 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system.
12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM
- 879 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system?
12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM
- 712 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting.
12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM
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I'm with Joel on this. There's a big difference between voting third party and not voting.
12/08/2012 07:31:29 PM
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Nice asshatery.
12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM
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Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option.....
12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM
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Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM*
12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM
- 388 Views
Not voting sends no message but "we will let politicians do as they please."
12/08/2012 05:12:55 PM
- 1152 Views
Well there's a difference between not voting at all and not voting in one race
12/08/2012 05:55:47 PM
- 892 Views
Usually only in degree, not kind, though I mostly had the former in mind.
12/08/2012 07:27:54 PM
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I hope that most of the disenchanted Obama 08 suppoerters feel the same way *NM*
13/08/2012 11:27:15 AM
- 377 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan
11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM
- 788 Views
What a shock.
11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM
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Most Republicans are fine with gutting Medicare.
11/08/2012 08:31:03 PM
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Everyone with an ounce of common sense is okay with "gutting" Medicare.....
12/08/2012 03:37:17 AM
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The only thing bankrupting Medicare is unsustainable US healthcare costs eating 20% of US GDP.
12/08/2012 03:56:28 AM
- 1032 Views
Silly comment - 30% of Medicare is FRAUD.....and the program is fatally flawed.
12/08/2012 04:09:26 AM
- 862 Views
So private insurance costs are really growing SIXTY percent faster?!
12/08/2012 04:24:49 AM
- 865 Views
Medicare worked for 50 years and SS for 80 because most people were DYING before 65.
12/08/2012 04:29:26 AM
- 663 Views
Eligibility age for both must increase (SSs has, but not enough.) They are not "unsustainable."
12/08/2012 04:31:57 AM
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definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november
11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM
- 815 Views
Since I forgot you asked Americans if it would change our votes: No, still voting Jill Stein (Green)
11/08/2012 11:07:12 PM
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Who cares? He's hot.
11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM
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I actually said, "He's not hot enough."
13/08/2012 01:15:58 PM
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On the plus side, you need not fear Ryans failure to mention abortion and contraception.
13/08/2012 03:17:45 PM
- 895 Views
Legolas a question for you, what is your opinion of George W Bush Social Security Plans in 2005?
12/08/2012 01:03:24 AM
- 724 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video.
12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM
- 710 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any
12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM
- 897 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee.
12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM
- 804 Views
Yes, they disavowed him
12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM
- 801 Views
Apparently the TN Democratic Party agrees voters should write in someone elses name.
12/08/2012 08:34:46 PM
- 772 Views
Does not work in the US
13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM
- 756 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters.
13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM
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I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything.
12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM
- 797 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not?
12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM
- 955 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience.
13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM
- 730 Views
What should Obama have done?
13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM
- 760 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama.
12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM
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But doesn't he say he detests Rand?
12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM
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No he doesn't disavow Ayn Rand, he still believes in her
13/08/2012 01:15:34 AM
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that is pretty mild of you campare it to the radical influence in Obama's life *NM*
13/08/2012 11:35:52 AM
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Ah, the classic "it is OK because their guy rapes puppies, too, even though he does not" defense.
13/08/2012 03:23:29 PM
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Obama doesn't have a history of openly endorsing the views of said radicals. *NM*
14/08/2012 12:32:52 AM
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he has a much closer and more personal realtionship with radicals than Romney or Ryan *NM*
20/08/2012 03:54:17 AM
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Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society.
13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM
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Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours
13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM
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Don't get me wrong
13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM
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Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did
13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM
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What an amusing retrospective.
13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM
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I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens.
14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM
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It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.)
14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM
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Interesting.
14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM
- 809 Views
They have a pill for that now.
14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM
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I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM*
15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM
- 511 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem.
16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM
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Disillusioned, sure. But I don't recall ever considering voting Republican.
14/08/2012 12:31:17 AM
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No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood?
13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM
- 669 Views
I saw a theory just after the announcement speculating Ryan was chosen as a scapegoat.
13/08/2012 03:33:56 PM
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I agree with your statements
14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM
- 889 Views
It's mostly nonsense
14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM
- 798 Views
Well
14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM
- 1009 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media
14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM
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I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM
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Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word.
15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM
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I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad.
15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM
- 711 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway
15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM
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The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses.
14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM
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I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either.
14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM
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I see your point, but...
14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM
- 652 Views
Well
14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM
- 836 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again?
21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM
- 659 Views
Expanding our perspective does not improve our options much, sadly.
14/08/2012 04:23:48 PM
- 776 Views