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I strongly disagree. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM
Because they're both equally ineffectual. During the US elections you've participated in, there has never been a third party candidate with a chance of winning. Not even a REMOTE chance of winning. When you voted for them, you wasted your chance at influencing the political process every bit as much as did someone who refused to vote. Realistically speaking, you have two choices. Even if you think they're both bad, one DOES match your beliefs and opinions on government better than the other. Doesn't it make more sense to wield your (admittedly slight) political power to help that guy than to throw your vote away?

This kind of thing has always bugged me.

Third parties cannot gain relevance without 1) building a base and 2) meeting the electoral threshold mandated for federal election funds and debate participation. In that respect, it is a pity the Reform Party (which met the critical 15% threshold in 1996) splintered into irrelevance, but such are the perils of building a party around a candidate rather than a platform. Meanwhile, third parties can and do elect candidates to state and local office. Not only does that build a loyal electorate through familiarity and a record of performance in office, but if the states are "laboratories of democracy," such local representatives today must necessarily be tomorrows national candidates. That is what so nauseates me about the Libertarians fawning over first Paul and now Gary Johnson, life-long Republican office holders who only turn to the Libertarians when the Republicans will not have them. Same deal with the Greens and Cynthia McKinney four years ago (though she had the added liability of being a paranoid bigot.)

Parties are built from electoral and then policy results, but the latter necessitates the former. America has a surprisingly strong history of such third parties in both the original GOP and the Progressives TR and later LaFollette led away from it when it became too indulgent of laissez-faire business. Both third parties achieved substantial policy results that endure to this day (though the Reform Partys failure to block the NAFTA and WTO, or at least hold them to the standards expected of US business, threatens the Progressives achievements.) At the very least, voting for a third party that represents ones views allows the ability to vote ones conscience when neither of the two major party candidates do so.

I do not expect any third party to do well nationally until/unless America has Instant Runoff Voting, but grass roots party organizing/voting can provide the necessary support to implement such laws by state referendum. The 1992 and 2000 elections have liberals and conservatives alike living in fear of the spoiler effect IRV eliminates. Both major parties know that well enough to unite in opposing IRV, but at the grass roots level major party supporters have a vested interest in such laws (e.g. preventing another Clinton elected with 42% of the popular vote, or Gore losing despite a popular majority.) The real traction can still only come from third party supporters who know their preferred parties can never gain national office without IRV. However, those so inclined will never consider it practical if NO ONE votes for third parties, ever.

Ultimately, if you feel neither major party represents you, you should vote for a third party that does; there are enough of them you can probably find one, but if nothing else you can write in your own name as protest vote. If you feel that is just "throwing your vote away," then you can choose the lesser of two evils in one of the major parties. Either way, there is NO excuse for not voting at all. All that means is that you are content to let others govern you without your input, or that you deny the legitimacy of any government not chosen by you alone. Neither position has any place in a representative democracy or republic.
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Paul Ryan is selected as Republican VP candidate - 11/08/2012 05:01:47 PM 1764 Views
Personally? No, I'm not voting Republican at all this year. - 11/08/2012 05:18:06 PM 806 Views
Ya know that narrative of the right getting further right is pretty ridicolous - 11/08/2012 06:43:44 PM 774 Views
it could possibly be the "all or nothing" budget fights and gay marriage among other things - 11/08/2012 08:19:11 PM 814 Views
Yeah, I forgot the Dems are very enlightened about gay marriage now for what? 2 Months? - 11/08/2012 08:59:17 PM 868 Views
+1 - Great post! *NM* - 12/08/2012 04:32:21 AM 504 Views
We're on a roll here Isaac. I agree with you again. - 12/08/2012 08:18:32 AM 821 Views
yet despite that, dems didn't put referenda and push bills discriminating against gay people - 12/08/2012 07:55:38 PM 895 Views
They certainly have, they've just done it less and less recently - 12/08/2012 09:39:53 PM 768 Views
Fred Phelps is 82 - 13/08/2012 01:28:01 AM 714 Views
So is Pat Robertson *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:41:28 AM 479 Views
They're not enlightened at all. - 21/08/2012 02:04:09 PM 979 Views
Agreed, but ya'll continue doing it anyway. - 11/08/2012 08:24:09 PM 806 Views
Thank you for making sense. - 12/08/2012 08:01:53 AM 776 Views
voting third party is a good idea - 11/08/2012 08:15:41 PM 791 Views
I'm sorry, but anyone that votes for Obama after the past 3 and 1/2 years is a moron..... - 12/08/2012 03:30:47 AM 715 Views
If you are proud of not voting, please shut up: The adults have a country to run. - 12/08/2012 04:11:49 AM 738 Views
Candidates have to earn my vote - I'm not a slave like you to the 2 party system. - 12/08/2012 04:24:02 AM 879 Views
Who said anything about the two-party system? - 12/08/2012 04:29:36 AM 713 Views
No offense intended, but voting third party is as stupid as not voting. - 12/08/2012 04:42:28 AM 961 Views
I strongly disagree. - 12/08/2012 05:11:52 AM 799 Views
as the saying goes "the lesser of two evils is still evil" - 12/08/2012 08:06:20 PM 785 Views
Nice asshatery. - 12/08/2012 07:56:57 AM 955 Views
Wouldn't you love to have a "none of the above" option..... - 12/08/2012 03:36:54 PM 728 Views
Or you could use a PR system and act like responsible adults. *NM* - 12/08/2012 05:47:14 PM 388 Views
Oh dear. - 11/08/2012 06:26:07 PM 768 Views
I'm happy with it, I like Ryan - 11/08/2012 06:47:21 PM 789 Views
What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:18:35 PM 911 Views
Re: What a shock. - 11/08/2012 08:51:12 PM 883 Views
ryan isn't going to help rmoney win wisconsin - 11/08/2012 08:21:27 PM 885 Views
Picking Ryan was an olive branch to the GOP rank and file. - 11/08/2012 08:05:41 PM 1003 Views
definitely a bold pick but not going to help him enough in november - 11/08/2012 08:27:59 PM 815 Views
Who cares? He's hot. - 11/08/2012 11:53:42 PM 973 Views
So are you a fan of David Cameron? - 12/08/2012 12:12:50 AM 645 Views
Lol. Nice one. *NM* - 12/08/2012 08:22:01 AM 439 Views
- 13/08/2012 03:31:38 PM 857 Views
Wonderful choice! Truly wonderful.....check the video. - 12/08/2012 03:22:48 AM 711 Views
Nice video. - 12/08/2012 06:52:59 PM 814 Views
Can you explain your fascination with Ryans ideas, please? - 13/08/2012 04:08:35 AM 767 Views
No, it doesn't change my opinion any - 12/08/2012 07:50:21 AM 898 Views
I hear even the DNC has rejected its TN Senate nominee. - 12/08/2012 05:46:37 PM 806 Views
Yes, they disavowed him - 12/08/2012 08:00:33 PM 801 Views
Does not work in the US - 13/08/2012 01:17:58 AM 756 Views
We do not need most of the populace to cast protest votes, only most voters. - 13/08/2012 01:33:41 AM 718 Views
Your distinction misses my greater point - 13/08/2012 01:51:26 AM 766 Views
*shrugs* Vote absentee then. - 13/08/2012 02:28:32 AM 788 Views
I was going to vote Romney anyway, so no, it doesn't change anything. - 12/08/2012 10:39:15 PM 797 Views
But I'm guessing you're glad with Ryan? Prefer him over the alternatives? Or not? - 12/08/2012 10:49:35 PM 956 Views
I disagree - 13/08/2012 12:52:07 AM 819 Views
Bloomberg has imploded - 13/08/2012 07:12:56 PM 719 Views
Bloomberg has become a national laughingstock. - 13/08/2012 08:13:24 PM 807 Views
Not as much as either Obama or Romney, surely. - 13/08/2012 08:23:41 PM 794 Views
Makes sense for you. You are Romney's target audience. - 13/08/2012 01:19:26 PM 730 Views
What should Obama have done? - 13/08/2012 07:31:23 PM 761 Views
And how much of that do you expect from Romney? - 14/08/2012 10:21:33 AM 1088 Views
Certainly more than from Obama. - 16/08/2012 12:00:19 AM 700 Views
Mmm, Objectivism. Another reason for me to vote Obama. - 12/08/2012 11:00:34 PM 880 Views
But doesn't he say he detests Rand? - 12/08/2012 11:53:47 PM 623 Views
Link to audio of Paul Ryans address to The Atlas Society. - 13/08/2012 03:37:27 AM 925 Views
Or you could have just read my response which posted prior to yours - 13/08/2012 01:45:07 PM 697 Views
Sorry, I completely missed your link. - 13/08/2012 03:09:11 PM 820 Views
Don't get me wrong - 13/08/2012 12:53:10 AM 736 Views
Actually I believe he promised to vote for Romney if I did - 13/08/2012 03:48:35 AM 876 Views
What an amusing retrospective. - 13/08/2012 04:20:02 AM 891 Views
Uh... how exactly did you get to spending and budget timelines? - 13/08/2012 04:59:45 AM 721 Views
Tangentially, of course. - 13/08/2012 05:08:18 AM 757 Views
I tried reading it again, but my eyes glazed over when you started babbling about lesbian covens. - 14/08/2012 12:30:03 AM 666 Views
It was a hyperbolic reference to the extreme left (one stolen from Matt Groening, btw.) - 14/08/2012 10:12:09 AM 738 Views
Interesting. - 14/08/2012 11:34:30 AM 809 Views
They have a pill for that now. - 14/08/2012 01:14:39 PM 849 Views
I'm pretty sure the solution is you learning elementary composition. *NM* - 15/08/2012 11:33:57 PM 511 Views
Your willful reading incomprehension is neither my fault nor problem. - 16/08/2012 07:40:46 PM 804 Views
I don't think you can succinctly do anything. *NM* - 16/08/2012 09:33:38 PM 519 Views
I just did. - 16/08/2012 09:36:21 PM 795 Views
EDIT: ACK! Hoist on my own petard! - 14/08/2012 12:25:27 AM 747 Views
No birth control, no right to choose, no planned parenthood? - 13/08/2012 01:58:51 PM 670 Views
They are really doing a public service that way. *NM* - 13/08/2012 02:26:39 PM 357 Views
I agree with your statements - 14/08/2012 12:53:41 AM 891 Views
It's mostly nonsense - 14/08/2012 04:46:11 AM 798 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 02:54:06 PM 1010 Views
'Nonsense' refers to the thing said about the religious right by the media - 14/08/2012 04:01:47 PM 1004 Views
I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 14/08/2012 06:30:23 PM 1055 Views
Re: I'm wondering if "belittles" is the wrong word. - 15/08/2012 01:45:59 AM 754 Views
I have to keep this short, because I am on the iPad. - 15/08/2012 05:38:48 AM 712 Views
Triple reply chain is usually a good point for the trim-edit anyway - 15/08/2012 05:27:20 PM 899 Views
Or shows it's time to quit. - 15/08/2012 10:20:17 PM 1105 Views
Agreed - 15/08/2012 10:54:05 PM 671 Views
The question, as for Tom, is what you believe Romney would improve for small businesses. - 14/08/2012 01:38:29 PM 830 Views
I am aware of that, thank you. And I don't distill my choice down to small business, either. - 14/08/2012 02:24:24 PM 880 Views
I see your point, but... - 14/08/2012 02:30:22 PM 652 Views
Well - 14/08/2012 03:09:18 PM 837 Views
Are you really going to let Obama con you into voting for him again? - 21/08/2012 02:00:06 PM 659 Views
I honestly haven't decided. - 21/08/2012 04:13:44 PM 1029 Views
None of that is that important. - 14/08/2012 08:53:10 PM 832 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 15/08/2012 02:21:55 PM 475 Views
Bullshit - 21/08/2012 01:46:42 PM 851 Views
This makes me more likely to vote R this year. - 15/08/2012 02:31:06 PM 749 Views

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