How do we know that Giffords saying, "I am afraid of getting shot," didn't lead to the shooting? Wouldn't that be just as likely to inspire a crazed gunman as crosshairs on a map?
I pretend no comprehension of insanity, but would not think so, and Palin putting crosshairs on her district still prompted Giffords' comment, so the source would be unchanged. Regardless, what would be the "logic"? A crazed liberal partisan shooting one of their own representatives to substantiate criticism of Palin?
I'm not as knowledgeable about this particular incident as I could be. I definitely remember it happening, but it's been awhile, and I haven't followed up on it much.
So speaking in a hypothetical sense rather than specifically, hearing a relatively-famous person say, "I am afraid of being shot," seems like enough to set-up a shooting spree as putting crosshairs on a map. But chances are it's something else, or really nothing at all.
It doesn't have to be partisan at all. He doesn't have to be a conservative nutjob obeying "orders" from his leaders or "a crazed liberal partisan shooting one of their own representatives to substantiate criticism of Palin." It could be as simple and incomprehensible as John Lennon's death.
It is hard to be sure; Loughner has been suspiciously tight lipped throughout (he shouted, "I plead the Fifth!" even as bystanders tackled him after the shooting.) Either way, if someone says they fear being shot IN RESPONSE TO someone putting a crosshairs on their area of residence, then someone hears that and shoots them, the ultimate (if indirect) cause remains those crosshairs.
As for the rest... yeah. I agree with a lot, disagree with a lot. Rhetoric is getting heated. It should be toned back on both sides. But to consider it directly responsible for this shooting is unwarranted, IMO.
Only a nutjob could shoot someone based on Palins imagery (and there is no evidence either way about whether Loughner ever saw it.) However, everyone knows many such nutjobs exist, so national leaders offering them triggers is dangerously irresponsible. When one knows a powder keg exists, ignores that and lights a match anyway, is the explosion the powder kegs fault or the match-lighters? At the very least that is not the kind of reckless judgement I want running my country.
Basically, I completely disagree with the SCOTUS Brandenburg v. OH ruling (unanimously) reversing the core of its Schenk v. USA ruling. Brandenburgs specifics only reinforce that feeling. Actions, including speech, have consequences; even if disregarding that is legal, it is unacceptable in national leaders.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 10/08/2012 at 12:58:45 AM
Mosque Burned in Missouri ; Sikh Temple attacked...I hope this doesnt encourage copycats.....
- 06/08/2012 09:05:00 PM
835 Views
Government cannot surveill/infiltrate/arrest violent white supremacists: That would be racist. 
- 08/08/2012 08:11:24 PM
479 Views
- 08/08/2012 08:11:24 PM
479 Views
Joel Joel Joel, I see they still haven't found a cure for crazy.
- 08/08/2012 08:39:04 PM
394 Views
Giffords made the allegation against Palin; feel free to tell her she was NOT subsequently shot.
- 09/08/2012 01:33:50 AM
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You're seriously blaming Palin for Loughner? That's so absurdly debunked at every level *NM*
- 09/08/2012 02:30:21 AM
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Again, I believe Gabrielle Giffords made that connection, about a year before it was proven valid.
- 09/08/2012 02:50:10 AM
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Okay, that's bullshit
- 09/08/2012 02:53:46 AM
481 Views
She suggested putting a crosshairs on her district endangered her life; that is now hard to dispute.
- 09/08/2012 03:50:13 AM
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Easy to dispute. Did Loughner claim to have seen it? Did Christian Bale cause Colorado?
- 09/08/2012 05:47:59 AM
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Has Loughner said much of anything? Did Christian Bale put a target on CO?
- 09/08/2012 06:11:17 AM
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Do you realize how crazy you sound?
- 09/08/2012 10:31:16 PM
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I love how you and rt keep calling me (and, by extension, Giffords, whom I am quoting) crazy.
- 09/08/2012 11:00:35 PM
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If the shoe fits Joel
- 10/08/2012 12:11:44 AM
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"If the shoe fits" is precisely my point.
- 10/08/2012 12:18:17 AM
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Did you lose all ability to make raitonal arguments while you were away?
- 10/08/2012 01:21:08 AM
528 Views
No.
- 10/08/2012 02:09:26 AM
543 Views
person A say B and then C happens that doesn't B was correct even if had similarities to C
- 10/08/2012 04:26:27 AM
375 Views
You believe whatever fits your world view reggardless of facts
- 09/08/2012 04:49:39 AM
420 Views
If you insist on blaming the victim, do it to her face.
- 09/08/2012 06:09:45 AM
478 Views
OK Joel connect the dots for so I grasp your version of reality
- 09/08/2012 03:08:00 PM
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A: Palin puts crosshairs on Giffords' district. B:Giffords says it endangers her. C:Giffords is shot
- 09/08/2012 06:35:56 PM
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No Joel I was calling you a Ghoul but I take that as admission that you cannot tie the two together
- 09/08/2012 08:39:44 PM
464 Views
I linked them in the subject line: It was that easy.
- 09/08/2012 10:37:53 PM
513 Views
No Joel you and Harry Reid need to learnt that baseless claims don't have to be disproven
- 10/08/2012 04:13:38 AM
390 Views
To play a little Devil's Advocate:
- 09/08/2012 07:39:40 PM
712 Views
How would that work?
- 09/08/2012 10:25:25 PM
603 Views
Re: How would that work?
- 10/08/2012 12:15:53 AM
617 Views
I do not consider it directly responsible, no.
- 10/08/2012 12:55:40 AM
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I read on Twitter where they raised enough money to pay for rebuilding costs in two days
- 10/08/2012 07:39:31 AM
418 Views