Just because the Left in Europe has embraced the French (not American) notion of nationalism doesn't mean that everyone has followed suit. Marine Le Pen got about 18% of the vote, and I suspect that if one polled the French about their views on immigration a lot of Sarkozy supporters could be added to that 18%. There is profound anti-immigrant sentiment in some parts of Germany as well, and the Sarrazin book essentially makes the anti-immigrant point.
I'm well aware.
It is clear that significant portions of the nation in almost EVERY European country are opposed to immigration, even legal immigration in many cases, and massive numbers of Europeans will NEVER accept someone who is not ethnically French, German, Dutch, etc. as being "one of" them. I'm not the one deciding; I'm just stating the facts. Recent articles in The Economist have even pointed out that America is unlike European nations in this respect.
What you said was: "By contrast, one cannot become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece, any more than one could become Russian, or German or French. Unlike the United States (and a few other countries), most nations are ethnic homelands for distinct cultures. "
There's a big difference between "Many Greeks don't think you can become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece", and "One cannot become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece". The latter sounds very much as if you are indeed the one deciding. And you suggest that there's some kind of essential difference between the US and European countries about this, instead of merely a difference in how large a percentage of the population would express such opinions (which, as you note, varies from country to country in Europe).
I think you'll find very few people would "never" accept immigrants as one of them, though. It's a small minority of those voters who are genuinely, ideologically racist. The rest have just had a few too many unpleasant encounters with criminals or intimidating gangs of immigrant origin, and generalized from there, or are confused and frightened about half of the people in their neighbourhood looking alien and foreign. That won't stop them from building up quite good relationships with individual members of that immigrant community. Hell, most of the far-right parties have a small but stable number of votes from the immigrant communities themselves (probably my earliest memory of French politics is seeing a tall black man on television who was handing out leaflets for the FN, and getting yelled at from all sides - that certainly took guts).
You might wish that it were otherwise, or you personally might consider that an African immigrant to Greece who gets citizenship is just as Greek as anyone else, but the vast majority of people aren't going to think that the person is "Greek", and a significant number of people (majority? minority? hard to say, depends on the country) will not accept them.
Well, thank you for that clarification, because that's quite different from what your previous post said. With the above paragraph I only disagree on the numbers - not "vast majority" for the former, and certainly not "majority" for the latter either, in *any* country. Unless, I suppose, your definition of "accept" goes rather further than mine.
Am I the only one who thinks Voula Papachristou should not have been kicked out of the Olympics?
25/07/2012 10:55:19 PM
- 1207 Views
Being on a country's Olympic team is a privilege, not a right
25/07/2012 11:00:24 PM
- 711 Views
So banning blacks would be cool if it was legal in that country?
25/07/2012 11:08:52 PM
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The IOC can ban nations from participating for that sort of stunt.
25/07/2012 11:33:23 PM
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If Hitler could let Jesse Owens run...
25/07/2012 11:07:19 PM
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Yes. Political power should not be used to enforce morals.
25/07/2012 11:53:19 PM
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The national Olympic Committees aren't the government.
26/07/2012 12:02:43 AM
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Even worse.
26/07/2012 12:08:05 AM
- 700 Views
Erm
26/07/2012 12:29:32 AM
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I fail to see how the whole team would be thrown out.
26/07/2012 12:41:16 AM
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Because the IOC throws them out if the national government interferes in the national committe. *NM*
26/07/2012 12:43:39 AM
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Africans != illegals
25/07/2012 11:19:32 PM
- 802 Views
Specious reasoning.
26/07/2012 12:07:08 AM
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Who are you to decide that?
26/07/2012 12:16:45 AM
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I'm not the one deciding.
26/07/2012 12:36:17 AM
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You stated it as a fact.
26/07/2012 07:49:58 PM
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Well, it is a fact that a north African could never become ethnically Greek.
29/07/2012 03:27:50 AM
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I think any organisation should have the right to choose who represents them
25/07/2012 11:20:36 PM
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Well, but that's not the end of it.
26/07/2012 12:12:09 AM
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It is for me
26/07/2012 12:26:25 AM
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So...conformity ahead? *NM*
26/07/2012 12:40:03 AM
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Athletes taking responsibility for their own actions, if that is what you mean.
26/07/2012 12:44:56 AM
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Is that all that happened?
25/07/2012 11:28:17 PM
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For me it is more than enough
26/07/2012 12:32:35 AM
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I thought the original ideals of the Olympics were to honor Zeus. *NM*
26/07/2012 12:38:32 AM
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I view the long dead Greek Olympics as seperate, despite the shared name, from the modern Olympics *NM*
26/07/2012 12:42:18 AM
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Difficult question - if you ask me, the key point is a question of authority.
25/07/2012 11:40:39 PM
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Well it seems a bit of an over-reaction, and I doubt the purity of motives of those doing it, but...
26/07/2012 01:49:35 AM
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks Voula Papachristou should not have been kicked out of the Olympics?
26/07/2012 11:14:39 AM
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I'm going to boycott by turning off the Olympics and watching Michelle Jenneke nonstop instead. *NM*
26/07/2012 09:02:59 PM
- 398 Views
I oppose censorship even if it is not comng from the government
26/07/2012 10:16:30 PM
- 684 Views
How is it censorship?
27/07/2012 02:33:30 AM
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try looking up the word censorship and ask yourself would their actions supress speech
27/07/2012 02:59:11 AM
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I know the definition thank you. How exactly was her communication suppressed?
27/07/2012 05:54:39 PM
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you are right public punishment of political expression could never been seen as suppression
27/07/2012 06:20:15 PM
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Well
27/07/2012 07:20:27 PM
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Where did she ever imply she wanted them to be bitten? *NM*
27/07/2012 08:03:05 PM
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Hello earth.... "food from home".
27/07/2012 08:26:15 PM
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OK I repeat my question: Where did she she WANTED them to be bit?
30/07/2012 09:07:01 PM
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Um, she referred to them as food?
27/07/2012 08:38:22 PM
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No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM*
30/07/2012 09:09:18 PM
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No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM*
30/07/2012 09:09:27 PM
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I'm with you on this - I don't think she wanted them to be bitten.
27/07/2012 09:02:05 PM
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Re: I'm with you on this - I don't think she wanted them to be bitten.
27/07/2012 09:32:56 PM
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Do you have to go to special schools to learn how to read that much into dumb jokes?
30/07/2012 09:57:21 PM
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Re: you are right public punishment of political expression could never been seen as suppression
27/07/2012 08:30:26 PM
- 663 Views
One problem.
27/07/2012 04:54:52 AM
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Exactly
27/07/2012 12:05:14 PM
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where do you people get these backasswards idea of what censorship is? PCmart?
27/07/2012 02:01:29 PM
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We can have this conversation w/o you being mean.
27/07/2012 02:57:02 PM
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I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship
27/07/2012 04:18:54 PM
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Re: I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship
27/07/2012 05:01:37 PM
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Re: I never claimed I was against repercussions and people here are denying it is censorship
27/07/2012 06:23:17 PM
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sorry I forgot the Olympic spirit was about banning athletes for dumb jokes they apologized for
27/07/2012 08:30:08 PM
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You're really not going to make sense of this if you keep mashing everything together.
27/07/2012 08:59:35 PM
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Re: You're really not going to make sense of this if you keep mashing everything together.
27/07/2012 09:18:08 PM
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I know who did the banning but the whole organization seems to infested with a certain flavor of PC
30/07/2012 10:11:26 PM
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Re: sorry I forgot the Olympic spirit was about banning athletes for dumb jokes they apologized for
27/07/2012 09:01:07 PM
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I know you said it but do you actually believe it?
27/07/2012 01:56:35 PM
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It's a good question, but yes, I do.
27/07/2012 02:42:28 PM
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Are going to ban everyone and everyone country who says something about anyone else?
27/07/2012 04:47:51 PM
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i have a feeling you are being influenced by that pic they run with all the articles about her?
27/07/2012 02:14:13 PM
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Surely you don't think...
27/07/2012 02:57:47 PM
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I can honestly say I would not care as much if she were a man and/or ugly
29/07/2012 03:29:47 AM
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And now the next incident... this time about an athlete's partner, not the athlete herself.
03/08/2012 09:47:27 PM
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