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You stated it as a fact. Legolas Send a noteboard - 26/07/2012 07:49:58 PM
Just because the Left in Europe has embraced the French (not American) notion of nationalism doesn't mean that everyone has followed suit. Marine Le Pen got about 18% of the vote, and I suspect that if one polled the French about their views on immigration a lot of Sarkozy supporters could be added to that 18%. There is profound anti-immigrant sentiment in some parts of Germany as well, and the Sarrazin book essentially makes the anti-immigrant point.

I'm well aware.
It is clear that significant portions of the nation in almost EVERY European country are opposed to immigration, even legal immigration in many cases, and massive numbers of Europeans will NEVER accept someone who is not ethnically French, German, Dutch, etc. as being "one of" them. I'm not the one deciding; I'm just stating the facts. Recent articles in The Economist have even pointed out that America is unlike European nations in this respect.

What you said was: "By contrast, one cannot become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece, any more than one could become Russian, or German or French. Unlike the United States (and a few other countries), most nations are ethnic homelands for distinct cultures. "

There's a big difference between "Many Greeks don't think you can become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece", and "One cannot become Greek just by becoming a citizen of Greece". The latter sounds very much as if you are indeed the one deciding. And you suggest that there's some kind of essential difference between the US and European countries about this, instead of merely a difference in how large a percentage of the population would express such opinions (which, as you note, varies from country to country in Europe).

I think you'll find very few people would "never" accept immigrants as one of them, though. It's a small minority of those voters who are genuinely, ideologically racist. The rest have just had a few too many unpleasant encounters with criminals or intimidating gangs of immigrant origin, and generalized from there, or are confused and frightened about half of the people in their neighbourhood looking alien and foreign. That won't stop them from building up quite good relationships with individual members of that immigrant community. Hell, most of the far-right parties have a small but stable number of votes from the immigrant communities themselves (probably my earliest memory of French politics is seeing a tall black man on television who was handing out leaflets for the FN, and getting yelled at from all sides - that certainly took guts).
You might wish that it were otherwise, or you personally might consider that an African immigrant to Greece who gets citizenship is just as Greek as anyone else, but the vast majority of people aren't going to think that the person is "Greek", and a significant number of people (majority? minority? hard to say, depends on the country) will not accept them.

Well, thank you for that clarification, because that's quite different from what your previous post said. With the above paragraph I only disagree on the numbers - not "vast majority" for the former, and certainly not "majority" for the latter either, in *any* country. Unless, I suppose, your definition of "accept" goes rather further than mine.
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Am I the only one who thinks Voula Papachristou should not have been kicked out of the Olympics? - 25/07/2012 10:55:19 PM 1207 Views
Being on a country's Olympic team is a privilege, not a right - 25/07/2012 11:00:24 PM 711 Views
So banning blacks would be cool if it was legal in that country? - 25/07/2012 11:08:52 PM 865 Views
If that's how the country wants to run itself - 25/07/2012 11:13:04 PM 739 Views
The IOC can ban nations from participating for that sort of stunt. - 25/07/2012 11:33:23 PM 894 Views
So that excuses thought control? - 25/07/2012 11:49:58 PM 788 Views
If Hitler could let Jesse Owens run... - 25/07/2012 11:07:19 PM 932 Views
Yes. Political power should not be used to enforce morals. - 25/07/2012 11:53:19 PM 672 Views
The national Olympic Committees aren't the government. - 26/07/2012 12:02:43 AM 655 Views
Even worse. - 26/07/2012 12:08:05 AM 700 Views
Erm - 26/07/2012 12:29:32 AM 731 Views
I fail to see how the whole team would be thrown out. - 26/07/2012 12:41:16 AM 730 Views
Because the IOC throws them out if the national government interferes in the national committe. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:43:39 AM 402 Views
Well, that's absurd. - 26/07/2012 01:09:41 AM 804 Views
As with most things, I doubt the practice matches the theory - 26/07/2012 10:45:55 AM 715 Views
Africans != illegals - 25/07/2012 11:19:32 PM 802 Views
Specious reasoning. - 26/07/2012 12:07:08 AM 638 Views
Who are you to decide that? - 26/07/2012 12:16:45 AM 775 Views
I'm not the one deciding. - 26/07/2012 12:36:17 AM 640 Views
Essentially you're saying "there are lots of racists in Europe". - 26/07/2012 08:28:26 AM 753 Views
That's an oversimplification. - 29/07/2012 03:13:14 AM 699 Views
You stated it as a fact. - 26/07/2012 07:49:58 PM 692 Views
I think any organisation should have the right to choose who represents them - 25/07/2012 11:20:36 PM 712 Views
Well, but that's not the end of it. - 26/07/2012 12:12:09 AM 780 Views
It is for me - 26/07/2012 12:26:25 AM 690 Views
So...conformity ahead? *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:40:03 AM 345 Views
Is that all that happened? - 25/07/2012 11:28:17 PM 649 Views
That and some pro-Golden Dawn statements. - 26/07/2012 12:14:25 AM 838 Views
For me it is more than enough - 26/07/2012 12:32:35 AM 627 Views
It's not what happened to her that I typically waver on. - 27/07/2012 03:08:45 PM 664 Views
It's not a matter of freedom of expression - 26/07/2012 09:49:59 PM 831 Views
This. *NM* - 26/07/2012 10:26:37 PM 364 Views
I oppose censorship even if it is not comng from the government - 26/07/2012 10:16:30 PM 684 Views
How is it censorship? - 27/07/2012 02:33:30 AM 789 Views
try looking up the word censorship and ask yourself would their actions supress speech - 27/07/2012 02:59:11 AM 910 Views
I know the definition thank you. How exactly was her communication suppressed? - 27/07/2012 05:54:39 PM 806 Views
you are right public punishment of political expression could never been seen as suppression - 27/07/2012 06:20:15 PM 924 Views
Well - 27/07/2012 07:20:27 PM 691 Views
Where did she ever imply she wanted them to be bitten? *NM* - 27/07/2012 08:03:05 PM 425 Views
Hello earth.... "food from home". - 27/07/2012 08:26:15 PM 663 Views
OK I repeat my question: Where did she she WANTED them to be bit? - 30/07/2012 09:07:01 PM 954 Views
Um, she referred to them as food? - 27/07/2012 08:38:22 PM 709 Views
No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM* - 30/07/2012 09:09:18 PM 462 Views
No what is silly is inferring that she hoped they would be bitten *NM* - 30/07/2012 09:09:27 PM 380 Views
I'm with you on this - I don't think she wanted them to be bitten. - 27/07/2012 09:02:05 PM 769 Views
It was insensitive at best - 30/07/2012 09:25:06 PM 1197 Views
One problem. - 27/07/2012 04:54:52 AM 685 Views
Exactly - 27/07/2012 12:05:14 PM 699 Views
I know you said it but do you actually believe it? - 27/07/2012 01:56:35 PM 668 Views
It's a good question, but yes, I do. - 27/07/2012 02:42:28 PM 721 Views
Are going to ban everyone and everyone country who says something about anyone else? - 27/07/2012 04:47:51 PM 624 Views
Yes, that is clearly exactly what I said. - 27/07/2012 05:10:37 PM 674 Views
i have a feeling you are being influenced by that pic they run with all the articles about her? - 27/07/2012 02:14:13 PM 687 Views
Surely you don't think... - 27/07/2012 02:57:47 PM 599 Views
Heh. - 27/07/2012 05:53:07 PM 815 Views
Typo? There are limits to our credulity... or to mine, anyway. - 27/07/2012 06:27:44 PM 694 Views
Looks like Voula Papachristou agrees with Tom - 27/07/2012 07:09:30 PM 716 Views
Quite understandable. But so's the Greek OC's decision. - 27/07/2012 07:11:31 PM 717 Views
And now a Swiss footabller has gone as well - 30/07/2012 08:22:45 PM 730 Views
That's just poor sportsmanship. *NM* - 30/07/2012 08:53:53 PM 484 Views
And an Australian athlete has been sent home now - 04/08/2012 10:12:12 AM 548 Views

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