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You're partially right but mostly wrong Isaac Send a noteboard - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM
You can make the argument that if normal people armed with guns they can stop shooters but it doesn't really work with the situation in the Colorado movie theater.


'Normal people' are actually not the majority of conceal carry owners. I know tons of them, most are serious gun enthusiasts and great shots, and at least half the ones I know are ex-military, had parents who were police or military, are spouses of cops, etc. Roughly 1 in 30 people in Ohio have concealed carry permits now, and the number has been rising sharply for the last three years, more than doubling. So don't assume had people been allowed to bring guns in to the theater it would be a decent-ish chance 1 person might have had one, think more like there's have been a 2-4% chance any given person there would have, with odds of a crowded 1-200 person showing of a movie that by R-rating mostly would have adults putting it at anywhere from 2-10 armed persons.

1) The movie theater was dark for this occurred during a movie. Furthermore it happened in the first 15 minutes of the movie so people's eyes hadn't completely adjusted to reduced lighting. Thus it would have been hard to target the shooter and just as likely to shoot someone else.


Not ideal but hardly bad shooting conditions, if you can see the person, you can shoot them. People described him in accurate detail, more than enough to draw a bead.

2) The shooter used tear gas which besides being an irritant is another vision reducer.


I really doubt most people even were effected by the tear gas, a theater is a big spot with a lot of volume, and again, if you can see him, you can shoot him, and they saw him. Quick note though, movie tear gas is not real life tear gas, about the only times it terribly fucks you up is prolonged exposure when it really starts sticking to you and your various internal bits, or when the dosage is massively concentrated. I've been tear gassed a disgusting number of times, I can't think of it ever impacting my visions worse than a bad day of allergies... which I definitely have had to put up with on gun ranges since some of those places are pollen death traps and once the dust and gunsmoke starts kicking in... yuck. I really doubt anyone who wasn't with a couple yards of the canisters got more than 'allergy level' effect, not even severe, tear gas goes right with concentration, a 10x10x10 unventilated room is going to be absolute suck if you throw a canister in, a 20x20x20 would be 1/8th the suck. One say 50 wide by 100 long by 25 high, a fairly small theater, the effects is going to 1% of that original case... except that theaters have really good ventilation. And that's not a big theater, in fact it's one that not going to have any spots in it that qualify as a hard shot with a pistol.

3) The shooter was wearing a kelvar vest thus even if someone got a lucky shot on the shooter there is a good chance he wouldn't have gone down.


Kevlar vest only protect the stuff right under it. So the gun in front of you, the hands holding it, your head, your groin, your forearm holding the gun or not, your thighs... also kevlar ain't that reliable. More, getting hit while in one, if your're not braced and ready for it, is going to feel like someone walking up to shake you hand fisted you in the gut instead. It is going to feel like a major league pitcher just bounced one of you. BEsides the fact that most people duck and flinch when being fired at, even when missed, which generally makes them shoot less, and that body amror doesn't cover you everywhere and isn't 100%, every bullet it going to feel like someone clocked you one.


This was not a simple situation, adding more guns to the situation would not have made the situation more messy not less. This is not a convenience store with good visibility.


Well it wasn't simple, but more guns would almost certainly have made things better. You're wrong, anyone saying it is wrong, and any 'expert' saying it needs to be asked 'does that include you?' and if they say yes they need firing. A crowded theater is not place for a firefight, but that only applies to hostage situations, if the bastard is gleefully shooting everyone then a firefight will almost certainly reduce casualties even if the shooter isn't killed or wounded.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control? - 25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM 1329 Views
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Re: I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 01:21:36 PM 697 Views
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I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM 795 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM 697 Views
Re: - 25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM 744 Views
Okay, that makes no sense - 25/07/2012 04:32:28 PM 748 Views
Re: Re: - 25/07/2012 05:50:23 PM 770 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 10:48:46 PM 794 Views
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Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though - 26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM 720 Views
... his was shorter? - 26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM 635 Views
Yeah but mine had diagrams! - 26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM 719 Views
I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM 584 Views
Re: I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:57:57 PM 717 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2012 05:23:11 PM 362 Views
Where exactly did you get those numbers? - 27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM 734 Views
He's right as far as numbers go. - 27/07/2012 08:08:02 PM 775 Views
Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation - 27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM 799 Views
Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies. - 31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM 710 Views
I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM 690 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM 671 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 11:56:05 PM 831 Views
Norway? Scotland? - 25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM 681 Views
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well it could have at least double posted the edited version - 26/07/2012 10:40:32 PM 635 Views
Most of those numbers come from inner city violence - 26/07/2012 10:40:34 PM 844 Views
Re: Hi, Cannoli. - 09/08/2012 09:07:03 PM 743 Views
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Or - 26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM 620 Views
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HE was talking about normal people. - 26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM 730 Views
I think we are talking past each other - 26/07/2012 05:55:48 PM 690 Views
Possibly. We do do that. - 26/07/2012 06:52:58 PM 723 Views
In addition to random thoughts's points... - 26/07/2012 03:10:56 PM 636 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM 709 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong.... - 25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM 860 Views
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Yes. - 25/07/2012 05:09:36 PM 644 Views
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It makes lots of sense, actually. - 25/07/2012 11:55:59 PM 673 Views
They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM 335 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either - 26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM 763 Views
That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers - 26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM 651 Views
Ha! - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 PM 541 Views
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Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms. - 26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM 722 Views
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Touchy - 28/07/2012 04:33:46 AM 854 Views

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