Thanksgiving was a purely federal institution. FDR dictated the date it's celebrated
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 30/05/2012 03:22:09 AM
I think that the relative distinction here is that Christmas appears on church calendars as a Holy Day. As does Easter, All Saint's Day, Holy Week, Pentecost, etc.
Thanksgiving may have been started by religious people, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't appear on any religions list of "Holy Days of Obligation".
Thanksgiving may have been started by religious people, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't appear on any religions list of "Holy Days of Obligation".
People signed a document with all sorts of religious references and prayers in it on July 4 1776, citing Divine authority as their sole justification, so that has as much claim to religious origin as anything about Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is more of a secular religious holiday, rather than possessing any religious significance in its own right. It's more historical, such as if the Church had the guts to celebrate the anniversary of the liberation of Jerusalem by the First Crusade. A secular remembrance of a religious event, made into a legal institution for commercial reasons. You can't water down a religious holiday any more than that.
Also, Christmas is not much of a religious holiday, it is almost like two coincidental celebrations, one cultural (I know of Jews who do the tree & gifts thing who wouldn't be caught dead in a church, and would not sully Channukah with practices carried over from that gentile custom) and the other religious, and the two kinds of observance are seldom intertwined. The government does not recognize Christmas as a holiday because they honor the birth of Jesus, they recognize it as a holiday because nobody would get any work done if they did come in, and they all want to be home with their families anyway. The legalization of the Christmas holiday was more of a de jure recognition of a de facto institution.
By the way, New Years Day is a Holy Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics in the USA. It is the celebration of the Feast of the Circumcision, because it falls one week from Christmas. Both the observance of the Nativity and the Circumcision have absolutely nothing to do with the actual contemporary practices of exchanging gifts and celebrating the changing of the calender, and to the extent that the secular practices have any religious origins, they have become so divorced from those origins that said origins no longer have any meaning for the practitioners.
My family exchanges gifts and meets for a meal on December 25, because we are Americans. We go to Mass at midnight earlier in that morning, following four weeks of penitential observance, because we are Roman Catholic. If we changed religions all at once, we would still do the former. If we ended up in a situation or place where the former was not practicable, we would still observe the latter religious practices. Really, I think of the two aspects as distinct from one another, which is why I don't pay any attention to the War on Christmas stuff, and in practice, most other people do so as well.
Thanksgiving? Not even on the radar. That has absolutely no religious context for me, and people like me or anyone I have ever seen that is not a TV character (and usually not on a good show - you never see 24 or The Wire characters going around the table saying what they are thankful for). In fact, I would say Independence Day has more of a religious connotation for me, because my political views are based on what I believe "the laws of Nature's God entitle" people to have.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
For Our Nordmenn: What Happens to Federal Religious Holidays in the Absence of a State Church?
27/05/2012 01:33:20 PM
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Nothing, they are federal holidays still because of strong unions, not religion
27/05/2012 06:58:52 PM
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Hypocrisy FTW, eh?
27/05/2012 11:04:38 PM
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No.
27/05/2012 11:16:11 PM
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Again, some people manifestly care; just not enough to relinquish a paid holiday.
28/05/2012 01:48:26 AM
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Nothing.
27/05/2012 07:03:07 PM
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Replacing it with another, secular, holiday seems the responsible thing to do.
27/05/2012 11:15:11 PM
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People. Don't. Care.
27/05/2012 11:29:07 PM
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If people did not care, disestablishmentarianism (and its antithesis) would not exist.
28/05/2012 01:41:18 AM
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Most of them are stolen from heden traditions and have nothing to do with christianity.
27/05/2012 07:15:55 PM
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Since two resident history buffs recently excoriated me for that claim, I have no wish to revisit it
27/05/2012 11:27:13 PM
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Thanksgiving isn't a religious holiday.
27/05/2012 08:43:58 PM
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That is rather debatable.
28/05/2012 12:08:53 AM
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The Distinction
29/05/2012 07:41:47 PM
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Thanksgiving was a purely federal institution. FDR dictated the date it's celebrated
30/05/2012 03:22:09 AM
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That distinction would be an almost wholly Roman Catholic (or possibly Greek Orthodox) one.
01/06/2012 01:47:12 AM
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How do you come to four for Canada?
27/05/2012 11:29:57 PM
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Because I counted Thankgiving, and holidays for federal employees rather than just statutory ones.
28/05/2012 02:03:55 AM
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Re: Because I counted Thankgiving, and holidays for federal employees rather...
28/05/2012 04:31:14 AM
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Well, you know better than I, but I found the 1580s date interesting.
28/05/2012 04:08:31 PM
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Re: Well, you no better than I, but I found the 1580s date interesting.
29/05/2012 01:15:52 AM
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Ireland has a tonne of religious public holidays yet no state religion.
28/05/2012 12:48:55 AM
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I wondered how that would shake out for the rest of Europe, or at least Western Europe.
28/05/2012 02:29:16 AM
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It's funny how you use "federal" to mean "mandated by national government".
28/05/2012 03:49:17 PM
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I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
28/05/2012 04:26:38 PM
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Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
28/05/2012 04:50:32 PM
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Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK.
01/06/2012 02:03:40 AM
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I think you've got the Scotland Act backwards.
01/06/2012 09:48:36 AM
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There's a lot of countries that call "devolution" federalism, though.
01/06/2012 09:52:23 PM
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What about when most of the country is still under central control?
02/06/2012 10:25:47 AM
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