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"Spiritual rape" might be going a bit far, but otherwise that sounds about right. Joel Send a noteboard - 02/03/2012 08:06:48 AM
It's just disrespectful towards the memory of the dead. If this individual was really a loved one, don't you think he/she probably already heard everything the baptizer's had to say about their religion? And they had already turned aside "salvation"? That's their choice. It's certainly a HELL of a lot more condescending. "Well they told me they didn't want to be part of my religion their whole life, but now that they're dead and can't stop me, I can do what I think is best for them. Because I'm definitely right." Wow. way to be presumptuous.

There are many definitions of love...but this degree of disrespectful is always unacceptable in my book.

And, from a religious aspect, I find this practice of posthumously baptizing someone who refused a religion to be spiritual rape. That'd even apply to converting someone in one form of Christianity to another. If you make a Catholic into a Baptist after they die, it's still just...it's wrong to defy someone's spiritual decisions in such a manner. Period and end. That's my take on the matter.

I could understand in the context of people after the Crucifixion being baptized for relatives who died before Jesus' ministry even began. The single brief passage where Paul mentions that is unclear whether he endorsed or simply noted it, but it would not have been an attempt to overrule their choice. A First Century Messianic Jew might well have felt they were merely completing the final fulfilling act of their loved ones faith.

However, now that the facts are generally known I strongly believe mature informed people make their own decisions while alive (I could certainly be wrong about that, though I cannot imagine how.) If that were subject to reversal without consent after they died, or even if they were granted a better informed second chance, an infinitely loving God would accomplish that with no need for mortal earthly agents. It is both insulting and absurd, IMHO, for a complete stranger to attempt what is unnecessary if God desires it in the afterlife, and improper if He does not. The whole point is that people are free to CHOOSE whether to accept God, not be dragged into it kicking and screaming. Which is incidentally why I do not believe in posthumous salvation: As a bridge player, I know making all the right plays with only half the cards visible involves irrevocable choices, but is automatic when all cards are visibile.
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Do you know the best way to anger an atheist? - 28/02/2012 07:10:57 PM 1857 Views
Or, you could baptize one of them, posthumously. - 28/02/2012 07:32:48 PM 1188 Views
Ooo that is hilarious *NM* - 28/02/2012 08:22:19 PM 428 Views
I can't think of any reason for an atheist to be annoyed by that. - 28/02/2012 11:08:44 PM 946 Views
Well, for starters, it's really effing rude. - 28/02/2012 11:31:36 PM 984 Views
It is an act of love. - 29/02/2012 12:34:03 AM 1009 Views
Everyone does it for that reason? (edits for clarity) - 29/02/2012 10:27:02 AM 898 Views
I have some disturbing news for you... - 29/02/2012 06:42:41 PM 946 Views
For anyone reading this: the guy above is wrong, and I am admitting that to you on his behalf, so - 29/02/2012 07:15:38 PM 956 Views
Maybe without realizing it, you have articulated.... - 29/02/2012 07:24:13 PM 811 Views
I actually find that conversation quite interesting. - 29/02/2012 08:18:35 PM 935 Views
Re: I actually find that conversation quite interesting. - 29/02/2012 09:07:06 PM 957 Views
I cannot possibly agree more with these two paragraphs of yours... - 29/02/2012 09:28:09 PM 968 Views
I'm surprised to see some of this. - 01/03/2012 12:11:31 PM 824 Views
You said it was really effing rude. - 29/02/2012 08:18:40 PM 993 Views
I meant that the act of choosing for someone else - 29/02/2012 08:54:02 PM 884 Views
Question - 29/02/2012 07:58:32 PM 996 Views
No, I don't blame them or think they are fools. - 29/02/2012 08:41:13 PM 910 Views
It is not an act of love to defy the beliefs of a loved one. - 29/02/2012 02:32:45 PM 1055 Views
Rape? That is ridiculous. - 29/02/2012 05:26:13 PM 957 Views
It's a bit of hyperbole, but not too far from it, imo - 29/02/2012 05:45:39 PM 990 Views
You are trying your best to not understand. - 29/02/2012 07:12:57 PM 976 Views
I suspect that that is where a lot of the issue with it lies. - 02/03/2012 01:33:43 AM 1028 Views
one thing - 29/02/2012 06:25:45 PM 997 Views
Precisely *NM* - 29/02/2012 06:59:15 PM 474 Views
Bad example - 05/03/2012 05:06:21 AM 1046 Views
"Spiritual rape" might be going a bit far, but otherwise that sounds about right. - 02/03/2012 08:06:48 AM 1020 Views
Why would they be angry about that? - 02/03/2012 01:23:56 AM 1114 Views
Denying people rights since it was written 3000 years ago? - 28/02/2012 07:44:02 PM 909 Views
Isn't religion different than faith, though? - 28/02/2012 07:44:07 PM 1013 Views
Yeah that's pretty much what I said - 28/02/2012 08:21:56 PM 803 Views
Only if I get to be Pope. - 28/02/2012 08:25:45 PM 918 Views
I love me my vices! Thanks Pope - 28/02/2012 10:14:27 PM 786 Views
Generally the same way you piss off anyone else - 28/02/2012 08:43:04 PM 930 Views
Great post. - 28/02/2012 09:18:38 PM 912 Views
I find that the best way is to smile. - 29/02/2012 06:23:50 AM 933 Views
Some answers - 28/02/2012 09:05:35 PM 881 Views
that won't work on Buddists - 28/02/2012 09:21:48 PM 952 Views
On the other hand ... - 28/02/2012 09:28:27 PM 791 Views
For some reason I always imagine Buddhists as the monk class on RPG games... *NM* - 28/02/2012 10:13:27 PM 473 Views
LOL same *NM* - 28/02/2012 10:31:38 PM 451 Views
Best way to anger an atheist, by declaring all atheists are the same. *NM* - 28/02/2012 10:38:51 PM 616 Views
Telling anyone what they actually believe will work. *NM* - 28/02/2012 10:51:56 PM 443 Views
This kind of works for many, doesn't it? - 29/02/2012 06:22:33 PM 813 Views
I'm an atheist, and I consider it to be my religion. *NM* - 28/02/2012 10:51:00 PM 426 Views
Common error number 1: "Atheism isn't a lack of belief, but rather a belief that God doesn't exist." - 28/02/2012 11:18:23 PM 1097 Views
I second that - 29/02/2012 03:46:15 AM 915 Views
Curiously, anger at statements of simple obvious facts is a hallmark of religious fundamentalism. - 29/02/2012 10:27:29 AM 1037 Views
What you're doing there is defining "atheist" and "agnostic" in a way that suits you, but... - 29/02/2012 11:50:27 AM 836 Views
What I am doing is using the terms as they were universally used until about the time I was born. - 05/03/2012 01:11:21 AM 972 Views
So what do you call this position?: - 05/03/2012 08:43:20 AM 929 Views
I call them both agnostic, but the former leans toward atheism while the latter has no lean. - 05/03/2012 10:53:02 AM 982 Views
See, there you go again, defining atheism in such a way as to make it sound ridiculous. - 05/03/2012 11:21:17 AM 806 Views
Well, is unswerving belief a good thing, or not? - 05/03/2012 11:57:05 AM 1034 Views
What's happening - 05/03/2012 02:24:41 PM 1015 Views
Conversationally, DKs use of "atheism" at the start of this convo is the only practical definition. - 07/03/2012 03:10:18 AM 1322 Views
Oh really? The guy who was doing it to annoy people? - 07/03/2012 09:53:38 PM 920 Views
The guy who was doing it to annoy atheists based on the terms technical and popular meaning, yes. - 11/03/2012 04:04:36 AM 795 Views
Whatever. - 12/03/2012 12:39:24 AM 1236 Views
*NM* - 12/03/2012 01:14:39 AM 447 Views
I understand that as "I completely agree." - 13/03/2012 12:11:18 AM 1074 Views
I saw it as.... - 13/03/2012 10:44:37 PM 830 Views
My browser does not like your gif. - 13/03/2012 11:32:06 PM 1085 Views
I have a few good quotes for this one. - 29/02/2012 03:29:22 PM 929 Views
I snerfled. *NM* - 29/02/2012 05:12:32 PM 462 Views
Re: That's it? *NM* - 01/03/2012 06:33:48 AM 519 Views
Re: Do you know the best way to anger an atheist? - 02/03/2012 01:47:03 AM 864 Views

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