Community Messageboard: I see; it discredits the claim Hitlers grandfather was a random Jew rather than Alois. by Joel

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I see; it discredits the claim Hitlers grandfather was a random Jew rather than Alois. Joel Send a noteboard - 19/02/2012 11:33:58 PM

A DNA test of Hitler's surviving relatives and of traces of Loret's DNA on some of his letters, conducted a few years ago, debunked that fully, that and the other pernicious myth that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather.

I knew of this legend back in the mid-1990s when I was a grad student whose area of study touched closely upon Hitler's era and the one historian who had postulated that Loret's claim might be true, Werner Maser, withdrew that claim by 1979.

Is the next post going to be about the discovery of the Illuminati and the dollar bill?

Only seven words of that (the link title) were mine, after all. I merely thought it would make an interesting topic of conversation, not knowing it was such a contentious issue. The Telegraph seemed reliable enough to start a CMB thread. Were I writing a book on the subject I certainly would have done more research than what goes into posting a casual thread in the wee hours of the morning on the way to bed.

I am actually more interested in how a DNA test proved Hitlers grandfather was not Jewish, since centuries before Hitlers birth there were already millions of Jews without a drop of Hebrew blood. A DNA test would probably show much of Israel is not Jewish. The test might be useful in the context of Hitlers ideas of racial purity, except those ideas were fallacious in the first place (and practically pointless in the '30s and '40s given that DNA had not been discovered yet, let alone DNA tests.)

A test that shows that descendents of Alois Hitler had the same Y chromosome as the Hüttlers (the family's name changed during Alois' lifetime) would indicate quite strongly that a Hüttler/Hitler fathered Alois, who in turn fathered Alois, Jr. (and his descendents), Adolf, and Paula, who were the children who survived to adulthood. The gossip about an assimilated Jew who seduced Alois' mother before she married a Hüttler was largely dismissed due to the expulsion of the Jews from the region of Graz centuries before (they were not permitted to settle there until several years after Alois was born); this Y chromosome test is only a final nail in that coffin.

I'm ignoring your latter comments because that is not what I studied in grad school.

That in and of itself has only a small bearing on whether anyone in his family tree was Jewish, though obviously the burden of proof is on anyone claiming that. Nearly anyone in Hitlers line of descent could have been a Jew, assimilated or otherwise (in fact, given German, Austrian and, indeed, Jewish history it is highly likely.)

That said, digging around just now I did find a couple articles on recent studies showing Jews are a genetically distinct population (i.e. DNA tests DO, in fact, show most Israelis are Jews.) A corollary, however, is roughly 30% of that DNA is still European; over 1500 years or so there was plenty of DNA transmission both to and from the European cultures amongst whom they lived.

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New York Times article on the 2010 studies

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Hitler Had Son with French Teen Joel - 19/02/2012 07:15:10 AM 1310 Views

Kind of horrible that his mother let him fight the nazis without knowing. *NM* Urza - 19/02/2012 07:27:39 AM 363 Views

I doubt telling him during the war could have improved that experience for him in any way. Joel - 19/02/2012 07:44:06 AM 493 Views

Still, letting him for all intents and purposes fight a war against his dad? *NM* Urza - 19/02/2012 07:46:53 AM 213 Views

Worked out for Luke okay. *NM* Ghavrel - 19/02/2012 08:58:20 AM 236 Views

Nonsense. He could be ruling the galaxy with an iron fist at Vaders side. *NM* Urza - 19/02/2012 08:59:07 AM 225 Views

True; there are no good decisions available at that stage. Joel - 19/02/2012 06:23:58 PM 496 Views

I see you're still posting sensationalist bullshit without seeing if it's been debunked Larry - 19/02/2012 08:33:36 AM 903 Views

<3 *NM* Ghavrel - 19/02/2012 08:59:14 AM 218 Views

I'm intrigued by your choice of source to link to. Legolas - 19/02/2012 10:02:11 AM 560 Views

Not that the Telegraph is a paragon of unbiased journalism, but I tend to believe them. Tom - 19/02/2012 04:20:05 PM 595 Views

Larry is right that the story seems to have been around for decades. Legolas - 19/02/2012 04:40:50 PM 668 Views

Either way, although Joel does frequently post rants, reposting a Telegraph article is hardly that. Tom - 19/02/2012 05:31:23 PM 593 Views

I saw it in the references part of that Wiki article Larry - 19/02/2012 09:35:25 PM 651 Views

Do not shoot the messenger. Joel - 19/02/2012 06:18:57 PM 879 Views

Y chromosome studies reveal paternal descent. Larry - 19/02/2012 09:42:37 PM 713 Views

I see; it discredits the claim Hitlers grandfather was a random Jew rather than Alois. Joel - 19/02/2012 11:33:58 PM 872 Views

How dare that peasant Joel share an article in the current news cycle without researching it fully! Dan - 20/02/2012 01:26:53 AM 604 Views

No wonder this place is dead when this is the nice reaction from people when they post stuff... Milla - 20/02/2012 06:43:02 AM 671 Views

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<quote id="245155">
<quote id="245145"><quote id="245133"><quote id="245115">A DNA test of Hitler's surviving relatives and of traces of Loret's DNA on some of his letters, conducted a few years ago, debunked that fully, that and the other pernicious myth that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather.

I knew of this legend back in the mid-1990s when I was a grad student whose area of study touched closely upon Hitler's era and the one historian who had postulated that Loret's claim might be true, Werner Maser, withdrew that claim by 1979.

Is the next post going to be about the discovery of the Illuminati and the dollar bill?</quote>
Only seven words of that (the link title) were mine, after all.  I merely thought it would make an interesting topic of conversation, not knowing it was such a contentious issue.  The Telegraph seemed reliable enough to start a CMB thread.  Were I writing a book on the subject I certainly would have done more research than what goes into posting a casual thread in the wee hours of the morning on the way to bed.

I am actually more interested in how a DNA test proved Hitlers grandfather was not Jewish, since centuries before Hitlers birth there were already millions of Jews without a drop of Hebrew blood.  A DNA test would probably show much of Israel is not Jewish.  The test might be useful in the context of Hitlers ideas of racial purity, except those ideas were fallacious in the first place (and practically pointless in the '30s and '40s given that DNA had not been discovered yet, let alone DNA tests.)</quote>

A test that shows that descendents of Alois Hitler had the same Y chromosome as the Hüttlers (the family's name changed during Alois' lifetime) would indicate quite strongly that a Hüttler/Hitler fathered Alois, who in turn fathered Alois, Jr. (and his descendents), Adolf, and Paula, who were the children who survived to adulthood.  The gossip about an assimilated Jew who seduced Alois' mother before she married a Hüttler was largely dismissed due to the expulsion of the Jews from the region of Graz centuries before (they were not permitted to settle there until several years after Alois was born); this Y chromosome test is only a final nail in that coffin.

I'm ignoring your latter comments because that is not what I studied in grad school.</quote>
That in and of itself has only a small bearing on whether anyone in his family tree was Jewish, though obviously the burden of proof is on anyone claiming that.  Nearly anyone in Hitlers line of descent could have been a Jew, assimilated or otherwise (in fact, given German, Austrian and, indeed, Jewish history it is highly likely.)

That said, digging around just now I did find a couple articles on recent studies showing Jews are a genetically distinct population (i.e. DNA tests DO, in fact, show most Israelis are Jews.)  A corollary, however, is roughly 30% of that DNA is still European; over 1500 years or so there was plenty of DNA transmission both to and from the European cultures amongst whom they lived.  
</quote>

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