Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare
Joel Send a noteboard - 10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM
That's likely why DHHS eliminated the exemption: in order to move the conversation away from the realm of barely-veiled theocracy.
From the article linked below:
Obama and DHHS want to give people access to birth control (free choice) regardless of income level (equality). The Catholic Church wants to keep anyone from having access to birth control (oppression) because their specific religious beliefs oppose it (theocracy). It's clear who the "villain" here actually is.
From the article linked below:
The rule goes into effect Aug. 1, but if objections are raised, another year's extension is possible.
That was no consolation to Catholic leaders. The White House is "all talk, no action" on moving toward compromise, said Anthony Picarello, general counsel for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "There has been a lot of talk in the last couple days about compromise, but it sounds to us like a way to turn down the heat, to placate people without doing anything in particular," Picarello said. "We're not going to do anything until this is fixed."
That means removing the provision from the health care law altogether, he said, not simply changing it for Catholic employers and their insurers. He cited the problem that would create for "good Catholic business people who can't in good conscience cooperate with this."
That was no consolation to Catholic leaders. The White House is "all talk, no action" on moving toward compromise, said Anthony Picarello, general counsel for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "There has been a lot of talk in the last couple days about compromise, but it sounds to us like a way to turn down the heat, to placate people without doing anything in particular," Picarello said. "We're not going to do anything until this is fixed."
That means removing the provision from the health care law altogether, he said, not simply changing it for Catholic employers and their insurers. He cited the problem that would create for "good Catholic business people who can't in good conscience cooperate with this."
Obama and DHHS want to give people access to birth control (free choice) regardless of income level (equality). The Catholic Church wants to keep anyone from having access to birth control (oppression) because their specific religious beliefs oppose it (theocracy). It's clear who the "villain" here actually is.
Nowhere in those statements does anyone affiliated with the Catholic Church advocate denying everyone contraception (which actually would be oppression) or any kind of theocracy. They just do not want Catholics forced to directly pay for something they morally oppose, any more than you would want to be forced to pay for their next new church. That is a reasonable position.
The problem is that healthcare, of which contraception is undeniably a part, is a basic right. Even Santorums comments imply warped agreement (they suggest he thinks healthcare a right of businesses and institutions, to extend to employees—or not—as they please.) It is entirely possible Obama erred in recognizing healthcare as a right but leaving it to private institutions to maintain as much or as little as they wish. Seems to me anything the public possesses only so far as private institutions and individuals grant is not much of a right. That makes it no less vital to their survival. If healthcare is only available to the 80% of US adults with full time employment, only to the extent their employers underwrite it, either it is not a right or America has a serious civil rights crisis. Three guesses which is the case.
This is why Obamas healthcare "reform" is unworthy of the name, and why so many of us said it was worse than nothing: Because it is. What is covered at what rate is still entirely at the discretion of private employers and private insurers. All that has changed is that 1) all Americans must purchase private insurance, whether or not they can afford it, or pay a tax penalty, 2) the bloated private insurers driving up costs for both patients and doctors are guaranteed a $900 billion taxpayer windfall and 3) insurers cannot refuse coverage to 50 year old diabetics with heart disease (they are, of course, free to charge them $2000/month knowing most of them will simply pay a $750/year tax penalty instead.) This is why we needed a public option, and still do; we can expect plenty more arguments over whether the feds are unreasonable to expect sick people get medical care.
I will get back to you tomorrow in that other thread, incidentally; now I must sleep (sorry.)
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 10/02/2012 at 02:29:31 AM
Democrats bailing on Obama - War against the Catholic Church heats up
09/02/2012 04:03:35 AM
- 1680 Views
This is not a war on Catholics, it is Obama being an idiot again.
09/02/2012 04:52:01 AM
- 707 Views
For someone who used to be a Con Law professor
10/02/2012 08:23:34 PM
- 591 Views
In general, I disagree with that view, but not in this particular case.
11/02/2012 02:02:42 AM
- 823 Views
Also, kudos for linking to a source, and a fairly non-partisan one as well.
09/02/2012 01:33:07 PM
- 788 Views
I am a non-partisan guy, so I only use unbiased sources! *NM*
09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
- 565 Views
Wanting both parties to be hit by a bus does not make one non-partisan.
09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
- 656 Views
You lost all credibility in the first line of your post.
09/02/2012 04:49:23 PM
- 726 Views
You actually think any of us has 'credibility' anymore in regards to neutrality? *NM*
09/02/2012 06:46:13 PM
- 464 Views
It's one thing to have a bias.
09/02/2012 07:28:51 PM
- 765 Views
Wow, talk about making a supernova out of a couple hydrogen atoms.
09/02/2012 08:41:44 PM
- 562 Views
The Catholic Church wants to eliminate the birth control coverage requirement entirely.
10/02/2012 12:24:01 AM
- 863 Views
Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare
10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM
- 798 Views
I'm somewhat suprised that Obama blundered this badly.
10/02/2012 01:40:14 AM
- 1590 Views
Why? Have you not been paying attention?
10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
- 2024 Views
If I am not satisfied with Romney then my Plan B is to not vote.
10/02/2012 10:58:34 PM
- 2034 Views
How does that help anything? Except Romneys election chances, of course.
11/02/2012 01:08:22 AM
- 1876 Views
No everynametaken this is not unconsitutional according to the first ammendment
11/02/2012 12:14:29 AM
- 1901 Views
Obama doing this actually impresses me to no end.
10/02/2012 02:21:10 AM
- 2112 Views
He is already preparing to cave.
10/02/2012 02:42:32 AM
- 2105 Views
Why are you even replying to me? What you said has little meaning to what I said.
10/02/2012 03:33:27 AM
- 1880 Views
Aaaaand you can put your hat back on now: Obama has already caved.
10/02/2012 04:04:30 PM
- 2116 Views
Yup, the cave already happened.....you could have set your watch to this! *NM*
10/02/2012 05:00:02 PM
- 1651 Views
Actually, no, I could not; I expected it to take another week or two.
11/02/2012 01:27:31 AM
- 2016 Views
No, you don't have to buy it from insurers. You get it for free, just like everyone else will. *NM*
10/02/2012 09:55:53 PM
- 1771 Views
"The employees can then buy the coverage directly from an insurer."
11/02/2012 01:25:52 AM
- 2087 Views
Then that article is wrong.
11/02/2012 01:43:40 AM
- 2044 Views
Two days ago the White House said it would not back down from requiring school/hospital compliance.
11/02/2012 01:57:50 AM
- 2013 Views
So in summary... the article you posted was wrong.
11/02/2012 02:18:00 AM
- 1578 Views
To soon to tell, but if you think so feel free to demand a correction from them.
11/02/2012 03:12:40 AM
- 812 Views
Losing the exchanges is a pretty big loss
11/02/2012 03:30:15 AM
- 727 Views
So they refuse to cover it for the next two years, then do an about face in 2014.
11/02/2012 03:57:53 AM
- 876 Views
If Aetna does not provide the free contraception as part of the compromise
11/02/2012 02:46:14 AM
- 604 Views
Yeah, I saw that; if Aetna does not do as Obama says by 2014 they lose out on free profits then.
11/02/2012 03:13:36 AM
- 668 Views
So Jehovah Witness employers should not have to pay for blood transfusions?
10/02/2012 03:57:47 AM
- 677 Views
Not if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
10/02/2012 04:20:32 PM
- 828 Views
Money is not the same as speech!
10/02/2012 07:20:56 PM
- 582 Views
And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
- 823 Views
No it isn't Joel, empirically you are dead wrong
10/02/2012 11:24:19 PM
- 810 Views
I do not see how requiring private entities do it instead of the feds is "least restrictive way."
11/02/2012 12:53:22 AM
- 804 Views
Catholic Charities of Sacramento Inc. v. Superior Court
11/02/2012 01:21:46 AM
- 743 Views
"the Court found that it wasn't a religious organization, it was just a non-profit corporation."
11/02/2012 01:36:33 AM
- 593 Views
One last point
10/02/2012 11:35:25 PM
- 906 Views
The federal government forcing private groups to facilitate without committing sin also infringes.
11/02/2012 01:03:30 AM
- 683 Views
You argument does not make sense
11/02/2012 01:26:57 AM
- 572 Views
It was an analogy, not an equivalency.
11/02/2012 01:48:14 AM
- 693 Views
Lets enhance your analogy making it closer to reality
11/02/2012 02:19:41 AM
- 783 Views
Why could I not buy it with my own money?
11/02/2012 03:46:33 AM
- 754 Views
Re: Why could I not buy it with my own money?
11/02/2012 04:17:17 AM
- 1998 Views
In other words, I could.
11/02/2012 04:21:05 AM
- 493 Views
You believe it can't help people since it is not single payer? *NM*
11/02/2012 04:31:13 AM
- 474 Views
Since you answered this in your other response I will just adress it there. *MN*
11/02/2012 05:59:37 AM
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Some more points
11/02/2012 02:30:27 AM
- 830 Views
Sex is not a necessity either.
11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM
- 751 Views
LMAO due to Obama's compromise (the word compromise should have a in it )
11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
- 794 Views
Obama just got two weeks of being portrayed as "anti-church" to the point even Dems complained.
11/02/2012 02:00:28 AM
- 722 Views
The polls disagree with you.
11/02/2012 02:32:59 AM
- 680 Views
It is an interesting article, but not for the polls.
11/02/2012 04:18:17 AM
- 727 Views
I wouldn't put too much into that poll anyway
11/02/2012 05:37:05 AM
- 855 Views
Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate.
11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM
- 732 Views
I haven't really heard about it outside of this post, so the negative exposure can't be too bad.
11/02/2012 05:56:58 PM
- 561 Views
There seems to be plenty of Hell raising over it, but you are in the States and I am not.
11/02/2012 07:55:51 PM
- 585 Views
I don't think it's quite the laughing matter you think it is
11/02/2012 12:31:23 PM
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Understood.
11/02/2012 07:51:14 PM
- 715 Views
mmm...
11/02/2012 08:20:26 PM
- 743 Views
The man talked about during the campaign was the one elected with a mandate.
12/02/2012 02:28:15 AM
- 891 Views
I think Obama (for once) was far more clever you give him credit for...
15/02/2012 05:11:10 PM
- 945 Views
Surrendering on liberal issues then blaming Republicans is not just Obamas strategy, but his POLICY.
15/02/2012 07:23:04 PM
- 793 Views